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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#41451: Jul 1st 2015 at 5:02:17 PM

Doppleganger, right? I'm just gonna take the Deadpool thing as non-canon, and as for the symbiote and Cletus caring for each other, I'm making it caring for themself (since it is basically one creature).

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#41452: Jul 1st 2015 at 5:08:59 PM

Though it was pointed out Cletus is a bigger monster than the symbiote IIRC.

edited 1st Jul '15 5:09:14 PM by HamburgerTime

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#41453: Jul 1st 2015 at 5:40:33 PM

To answer futuremoviewriter's question about [[Film/Scream2 Mickey]], he kind of has Roman and Jill to compete with in the Scream movies.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#41454: Jul 1st 2015 at 5:55:10 PM

[up]Well, FWIW, he has a body count of 6 (according to Scream wiki), which is probably enough heinousness wise anyway.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#41455: Jul 1st 2015 at 7:30:28 PM

Remember Tayama from Shin Megami Tensei IV?

I think I might re-propose him soon. On a replay I ran across some previously missed bits of NPC dialogue that makes his Well-Intentioned Extremist rhetoric, well, a lot harder to take seriously.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#41456: Jul 1st 2015 at 7:34:20 PM

Whenever you're ready to do so, Hamburger Time.

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#41457: Jul 1st 2015 at 7:34:48 PM

I think Carnage has a possessive relationship with Shrike, only he can mess with her, not other people.

Regarding Scream 2 Micky is not even the main villain, Mrs. Loomis is, with Mickey having taken direction from her. Mrs. Loomis was the real brains of the operation, so I'm not even sure Mickey is the worst character in that film, let alone the franchise. Mrs. Loomis is enacting a complicated revenge scheme to avenge her son, so she doesn't count. So while Mickey did most of the killings, Mrs. Loomis did most the planning, which makes her just as responsible for the killing spree in that movie. With that in mind, I'm not sure he measures up with the villains from the later movies

Klavice (Elder Troper)
#41458: Jul 1st 2015 at 11:46:45 PM

On an unrelated note: Happy Canada day to all you Canadian tropers out there, such as myself.

I think I might actually give myself a Canadian avatar to celebrate.

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#41459: Jul 1st 2015 at 11:52:53 PM

Speaking of the Scream franchise, will anyone be watching the new tv series for any possible contenders?

edited 1st Jul '15 11:53:12 PM by bobg

jjj
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
SatoshiBakura (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#41461: Jul 2nd 2015 at 5:56:48 AM

I'm bored, so I'm going to post updates on Felix and Chairman Malcom Hargrove from Red Vs Blue. Not calling for any votes yet (though you can say what you are leaning towards at the moment), but rather just showing what they are in. Episode 12 of Season 13 has recently aired, so I'm looking to wait until the end of the season for a call.

Felix raided a prison ship with Locus and the other pirates. While you might say that this was on the orders of Hargrove, Felix and Locus's dialog and some deductive reasoning suggests that Hargrove may have just wanted more men while Felix was the one who made the plan that he would manipulate his way into the bridge of the ship by pretending to be all friendly and then killing the people in the bridge when the time was right. Felix's dialog also suggests that he purposefully let the captain activate the alarm so that he and the rest of the pirates would have an excuse killing the rest of the crew. And then after talking to the prisoners about joining the genocidal mission, he activates the "purge", which opens up the airlocks in the cells, killing all of those who didn't want to join as well as those not strong enough to hold on to the cell bars (which Felix tells them to grab on to if they want to join).

Another thing on Felix is that he seems to be pushing be the one to get all of the people killed himself lately. When Sharkface informs him of the temple that will kill everyone on Chorus as well as the key that will activate it, Felix immediately expresses interest in getting the key and activating the temple himself while Locus stays behind. But then Felix tells him to kill Kimball quickly as "we were friends after all". I have no idea whether or not he genuinely liked Kimball, or that he just wanted her to die first because he didn't like her for some reason. But this cannot be ignored, so we should wait to see if he means it as well as if he does anything more heinous as I'm pretty sure organizing that raid in its fashion wasn't enough to bump up Felix.

Now Chairman Hargrove as we know is the mastermind behind the Space Pirates and the genocide scheme. But I didn't want to qualify him yet as we didn't know much about his motives for both the attempted genocide and bringing down Project Freelancer. While we don't know much more about either as of now. But we do see in Episode 6 that the Chairman really likes showing off the tech he acquired from Project Freelancer in his trophy room. This includes a pistol which seems innocent enough until you realize (through deductive reasoning) that the only way a random pistol would be there is if...that was the pistol that the Director of Project Freelancer used to commit suicide. Geez, Hargrove really likes to show off even if it's rather undignified. Also, considering the interview with him in Episode 1 has him saying that they are still at war with the aliens despite the fact that they are technically at peace gives a hint towards his motives. He's also willing to kill Locus and Felix if they fail to commit genocide.

Yeah, while Felix is still rather indecisive (and may even lean towards a [tdown] for now), Hargrove is leaning towards a [tup] in my opinion. But I'm not calling for a vote yet.

edited 2nd Jul '15 5:57:12 AM by SatoshiBakura

BigglesTh9 Since: Jul, 2011
#41462: Jul 2nd 2015 at 6:31:31 AM

I think Diavolo is currently 5-0 in favour - anyone else want to share their thoughts?

In terms of other potential candidates from JJBA, I was thinking about Angelo earlier today and decided to review his section. I might give him a provisional yes.

His rap sheet:

  • His backstory involves him raping and murdering two teenage boys, and taking the third one hostage when he learned that the boy's family was rich. He arranged a ransom payment, but killed the boy before claiming it, and also killed on the policemen who came to arrest him. He also cut off the last boy's penis, although we're not told whether this was before or after killing him. A doubt I have is whether this counts as on-screen - we see a panel of him doing something to the boys (while mostly obscured by shadow) and one of his arrest, while the details are narrated.
  • In the present day, he body-jacks a guy and holds a woman at knife-point to commit a robbery. Despite the tactical value of his Human Shield, he tries to stab her to death in a fit of rage.
  • He then goes on a killing spree with a reported 7 victims (though we see only the first one), and them rounds it off at 8 when he kills Josuke's grandfather. It's a given that they all died in agony, as he used his powers to tear up the inside of their heads. Since we see the beginning and end of the spree, I'd say it counts as on-screen.
  • He also attempts (on two occasions) to kill Josuke and his mother. This is one of those cases where the fact that his would-be victim is the hero is not an ameliorating factor: while Josuke did foil his aforementioned robbery, he makes it clear that his subsequent attempts on Josuke's life (and obviously, on his mother's life) are motivated by spite.
  • We're told that he started a string of robberies and rapes when he was 12 years old, although I'd dismiss this as Offstage Villainy.

In summary, I'd say he does a lot with the little screen-time he has, and it's not much a stretch to say he's as heartless and cruel as J. Geil.

edited 2nd Jul '15 6:41:44 AM by BigglesTh9

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#41463: Jul 2nd 2015 at 7:35:47 AM

Angelo seems like a potential candidate at least. The work may need its own page. BTW, would you please add your Diavolo writeup to YMMV.Jo Jos Bizarre Adventure? It would make tweaking easier. Thanks in advance smile.

edited 2nd Jul '15 7:38:27 AM by ACW

AquaRegia Since: Jun, 2011
#41464: Jul 2nd 2015 at 12:14:54 PM

@Hamburger Time: If we're gonna talk about anyone in Shin Megami Tensei IV, do you think we should also talk about Merkabah? Some of the absolute lows Merkabah sinks to are pretty vile.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#41465: Jul 2nd 2015 at 12:31:56 PM

I might see Angelo counting, since he seems a bit worse than the other Jojo killers, but I think we might've hit our limit for those. Dio, Diavolo and Cioccolata are the easiest for keeps. Enrico Pucci also may qualify if not for his true affection and loyalty to Dio.

Now, first Maegor the Cruel

  • Worlds Of Ice And Fire: Maegor, the third King of Westeros, better known as 'The Cruel,' usurped the throne from his nephew and promptly decapitated the one archmaester who protested. As king, Maegor turned to brutal tactics to suppress the Faith of the Seven, even riding on his dragon to burn down a sept with all worshippers inside, using archers to pick off stragglers. Maegor proceeded to commit massacre after massacre, even passing off the skulls of poor smallfolk in the wrong place at the wrong time as members of the Faith's warriors. Worse still was Maegor's attitudes towards family: Maegor killed his own nephew in combat, and then had his second nephew captured and tortured to death. When one of his wives gave birth to a 'stillborn monstrosity' Maegor had her, everyone at the birth, and her entire family executed. When his favorite wife revealed she'd poisoned her from jealousy Maegor cut her heart out and gave it to the dogs. Obsessed with having an heir, Maegor forcibly married three women, including his own niece. After having the Red Keep constructed, Maegor also had the builders massacred to keep its secrets to himself. Monstrous, brutal, violent and cruel, Maegor's excesses drove all Westeros to unite against him behind his only surviving nephew, Jaerharys and is remembered to the present day as one of the greatest examples of an evil King.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#41466: Jul 2nd 2015 at 12:34:36 PM

Would Maegor go in the Song of Ice and Fire folder, or would it be separate?

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#41467: Jul 2nd 2015 at 12:43:01 PM

Now from the MST 3 K film...Bloodlust we have... Albert Balleau!

Who Is he?

A wealthy man who owns an island where he likes to hunt human beings. Balleau pays a boat driver to deliver victims to him where he captures them, sets them loose and hunts them down.

I can't really say much more. He's like a badly acted General Zaroff from the Most Dangerous Game.

What's he done

Well, besides constantly bringing people to his island to murder them in thrill seeking hunting games, the crazy SOB has like zero tolerance for his own employees.The boat driver who brought him victims? Murdered. Henchmen? Killed. One henchman is even abandoned to die in leech infested quicksand.

Now, it turns out Balleau has a wife, who has a boyfriend (who'd cheat on a prize like him?! It boggles the mind!) When Balleau finds out, he murders them both and has them stuffed and displayed as trophies.

I can't really add much else. Balleau has a very large bodycount, no redeeming qualities and manages to be nastier than Zaroff. The film is hysterically bad, but it tries!

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#41468: Jul 2nd 2015 at 12:49:39 PM

Assuming the character is played seriously (ala Manos) and the killings (not just of the henchmen, but of the hunting victims), I'll [tup].

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
ST89 Since: Feb, 2015
#41470: Jul 2nd 2015 at 1:30:08 PM

[tup] for Balleau but we need more info about him.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#41471: Jul 2nd 2015 at 1:32:09 PM

I'm not really sure what else I can say, honestly.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Camberf Since: Jan, 2012
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#41474: Jul 2nd 2015 at 2:04:05 PM

[tup] Balleau

edited 2nd Jul '15 2:04:57 PM by Ravok

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#41475: Jul 2nd 2015 at 2:30:56 PM

Ballaeu gets a [tup], cheesy though he may be.

@ Aqua: Merkabah is a very, very dark Well-Intentioned Extremist, and he's no hypocrite, not even excluding himself from his own judgement. I think he misses the mark.


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