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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#40801: Jun 14th 2015 at 9:40:34 AM

[up]Always add spoiler tags when talking about something new.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#40802: Jun 14th 2015 at 9:44:40 AM

  • Alex Cross: The sadistic "Picasso" is an assassin who was hired to eliminate Giles Mercier and his associates Fan Yau Lee and Erich Nunemacher who hired him? . After being invited to Fan Yau's house, he proceeds to sedate her with a paralyzing drug. Afterwards, he murders all of her bodyguards and tortures her to death by cutting off all of her fingers. He later goes after Nunemacher, but fails to kill him due to Alex Cross and his partners Monica and Tommy interfering. As punishment for their interference, Picasso breaks into Monica's apartment and tortures her to death, shortly before sending a photo of her body to Cross's cell phone. Picasso then makes it personal by murdering Maria, Cross's pregnant wife, and later calls him after her funeral, telling Cross that the only reason why he killed her instead of him was so he could make him suffer. Picasso then goes after Giles Mercier, attacking his convoy with a rocket and killing several police officers, along with Nunemacher and Mercier's double. During Picasso's final confrontation with Cross, Picasso subdues Cross and attempts to inject him with the same paralyzing drug as well.
  • Cape Fear: Max Cady from both versions.
    • 1962 original: Robert Mitchum's version is a smug, slimy sociopath who went to jail for rape and returns later to destroy Sam Bowden, a man who testified against him. He kills the family dog, relentlessly stalks the family and destroys those around them, planning to rape Bowden's wife and daughter before he kills them. He also rapes and beats an innocent woman for no reason just as a means of asserting his power over her and Bowden's helplessness to do anything. He's out for nothing but revenge and doesn't care that he deserved to go to jail for what he did.
    • 1991 remake: Robert De Niro’s version is a mad dog Knight Templar who also was released from jail for rape. He brutally rapes and maims a friend of the target of his anger, kills Bowden's housekeeper and his PI, fatally poisons the family dog, and tries to drive Bowden insane before planning to rape his wife and daughter here as well. He claims throughout the movie that he's all about the law and how he looks in God's eyes, and yet does not admit that he deserved his prison sentence even though he might have gotten off had Bowden done his job properly. He doesn't care about justice and proves to not only be a raging hypocrite out for revenge, but simply deciding to hurt people because he likes to do so.
  • D-Tox (also known as Eye See You): The mysterious Serial Killer kills police officers by first incapacitating them with a power drill in the eye, then shooting them in the head, before leaving the corpse hanged on the ceiling. He does this in order to provoke the cop Trent Malloy, who some years ago pursued him for a series of murders of prostitutes ( a thing he calls "removing diseased filth"). He kills Malloy's girlfriend Mary in the same way he kills the cops in order to break him even more. Believed to be dead, the killer fakes his own death. Still eager to ruin Malloy's life, he follows him to a rehab center, kills one of the patients, Frank Slater, and takes his identity. After leaving no one the chance to escape the clinic he starts viciously killing most of the patients this time using melee weapons like a knife or an axe, killing one of them via electroshock. In his last breath he sadistically taunts Malloy that Mary called out his name one moment before "he drained the life out of her."
  • Don't Say a Word: Patrick Koster is the violent, short-tempered leader of a gang of professional robbers. He starts the movie by stealing a precious gemstone but he gets double-crossed by two of his men who escape with it. Wanting desperately to retrieve the gemstone, he starts committing various cruel crimes. He kills Russ, one of the members who betrayed him, by pushing in front of a subway train without even giving him the time to answer where the gemstone is, and does this in front of the victim's distraught daughter Elisabeth, shocking her for life and making her severely mentally unstable. He kidnaps Jessie, the daughter of child psychiatrist Dr. Nathan Conrad, in order to force him to obtain a six digit number (Russ's tombstone where the gemstone is hidden) from the now-grown-up Elisabeth. It's also revealed that that Koster long before kidnapped the girlfriend of Nathan's co-worker Dr. Sachs in order force him to acquire the number from Elisabeth, but he had her killed by breaking her neck even if the time he gave to Sachs hadn't passed yet. When Koster confronts Elisabeth he taunts her about her father's death. Even after having what he wanted he orders Nathan, Elisabeth and Jessie to be killed anyway. He kills one of his men simply For the Evulz after Nathan during a fight refused to kill him.
  • Frequency: Jack Shepard is a cop who moonlights as the Nightingale Killer, a Serial Killer who targets nurses, strangling them to death and stealing their jewelry. By 1969, he had already murdered three women this way, and when John Sullivan, a cop in 1999, prevents his father Frank from dying in 1969 note , he also inadvertently causes his mother, a nurse, to save Jack Shepard's life, allowing his murder spree to continue. By 1999 in the new timeline, Jack had murdered 7 more women, including John's mother, who had saved his life, and Jack's own loving mother. Frank and John attempt to stop the murders in the past, but Jack catches on, beating up Frank and stealing his driver's license to place on his latest victim and frame Frank for the murders. Near the end of the film, he attacks both John and Frank "simultaneously" in 1969 and 1999, and after handcuffing Frank, attempts to rape his wife. When Frank frees himself and aims a shotgun at Jack, he takes a young John hostage, threatening to snap the kid's neck.
  • Last House On Dead Street: Terry Hawkins is an ex-convict released from jail after having served time for drug charges. Convinced that the audience today "want more" he decides to make snuff films and sell them. He gathers psychotic and sadistic men and women as his crew and henchmen while lying to the producers that the movies are all fake. The first victim is a blind man whom Hawkins personally strangles. He kills a young actress, first stigmatizing her across her chest and then slashing her throat. He decides to kill the producers as well, starting by beating the pornography director to death and later dismembering his wife's legs with an hacksaw before eviscerating her with hedge clippers. He shows the film executive the corpse of the blind man and welcomes him "back to the edge." He then forces him to perform an oral sex on a dismembered goat hoof held between his henchwoman's legs before killing him with a power drill. Hawkins is motivated simply by greed and especially sadism, and still remains one of the most maniacal and deranged villains of the exploitation genre.
  • Paradise: The Jackal is a slave trader who sells girls in Baghdad as sex slaves. When a British teenager named Sarah catches his eyes, he tries to buy her. He pays a guide to help him find the caravan that Sarah is traveling with. When the caravan stops to make camp, the Jackal leads his men to massacre them, killing David's missionary parents in the process. The surviving women are raped and taken prisoner. The Jackal refuses to pay his guide as Sarah escaped the mayhem, explaining he intended to take her in his own harem, before killing his guide. When Sarah's servant Geoffrey finds the Jackal's encampment, the Jackal has him killed too before then relentlessly pursuing David and Sarah.
  • See No Evil: Margaret Goodnight seems like a kindly old woman opening a hotel as a homeless shelter, but she is in fact the mastermind behind her son Jacob’s killing spree. Luring several teenage delinquents, and a police officer overseeing them into a murder trap for her son, it is discovered that she is the one who molded Jacob into the killer he is today. Ever since Jacob was young, Margaret would abuse and torture him and at one point tortured a girl in front of Jacob, forcing him to watch as she ripped the girl’s eye out. She brainwashed Jacob into believing he is the hand of God, and kill people she sees as sinners, even if they have so much as a religious tattoo. When Jacob is reluctant to kill a hostage, Margaret belittles him for being "ungrateful" and attempts to do the deed herself.
  • Snuff 102: The unnamed Serial Killer is a sociopathic and utterly depraved maniac who (utilizing, among other methods, Groin Attack, Fingore, Eye Scream, and The Tooth Hurts) takes great joy in torturing, raping, and horribly killing women (one of whom is a pregnant hooker), all of which he films and sends to the internet. He does all this for insane misogyny or simply for pure evil. When a female journalist investigates the killings, the killer, revealed to be a film critic she interviewed not long ago, kidnaps her too. He forces her to watch him beating a woman to death with a hammer before preparing to kill her or, worse, torture her to death with an hook. In his last moments he tries to kill the journalist with a machete, but he then discards it and tries to strangle her to death, wanting to give her a slow and agonized death.

edited 15th Jun '15 11:14:20 AM by ACW

Camberf Since: Jan, 2012
#40803: Jun 14th 2015 at 9:49:42 AM

[up] For the Frequency entry, can you put the note before the comma?

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
PostalDude47 I regret nothing! from Paradise, AZ Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: She's holding a very large knife
I regret nothing!
#40805: Jun 14th 2015 at 12:04:48 PM

Here's an image for the Hatred guy: It's violent, but I don't think it's too violent.

The gene pool is stagnant and I am the minister of chlorine.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#40807: Jun 14th 2015 at 3:00:19 PM

Orochimaru is apparantly considered as good in Naruto Gaiden for some reason... Should he be deleted?

OccasionalExister Since: Jul, 2012
#40808: Jun 14th 2015 at 3:08:31 PM

@40801: Yes, but while Joker and Bullseye's motives aren't really complex, they have decades of comics behind them that gives insight into them as people and why they do the things they do. This version of Harley Quinn that exists in an Alternate Universe has five minutes and a handful of dialogue, not enough to paint a complete picture of her as a person.

edited 14th Jun '15 3:53:57 PM by OccasionalExister

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#40809: Jun 14th 2015 at 3:16:36 PM

[up][up]There seems to be some continuity weirdness. Can anyone who's familiar with the series please weigh in? Same question about Byakuran.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#40810: Jun 14th 2015 at 3:19:40 PM

Can you please refrain from commenting on things you don't know and aren't familiar with in these contexts? There is not 'continuity weirdness' here.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#40812: Jun 14th 2015 at 3:32:49 PM

I'm just saying. There's a continuing trend of you attempting to answer everything, especially from works you don't know, aren't familiar with and have no intention of watching, as well as constantly making comments that serve no real purpose except to note trivia of "oh, THAT guy as a complete monster" and I do not believe it's helpful. As I keep stressing, not everything requires a comment. You can let other people handle these things without a comment.

As for Orochimaru, he's apparently been put under house arrest and is assisting the good guys because the gaiden's villain is a rogue experiment of his he wants eliminated. I'm not sure if this is enough to eliminate him because the way he's been treated since revival is flat out weird.

edited 14th Jun '15 3:33:49 PM by Lightysnake

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#40813: Jun 14th 2015 at 3:37:48 PM

Fair enough (and thanks for answering).
Speaking of Manga villains, is Yhwach still a contender?

edited 14th Jun '15 3:40:12 PM by ACW

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#40815: Jun 14th 2015 at 3:52:29 PM

You know, now that's it's almost ending, I think I may actually wanna read Bleach (there will probably be like, what, less than 100 English volumes?). Do the Loads And Loads Of Characters get annoying, or is it manageable?

ANewMan A total has-been. Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A total has-been.
#40816: Jun 14th 2015 at 3:55:20 PM

Orochimaru and Mayuri Kurostuchi are pretty much the same character at this point - an ally to the series' good guys out of convenience even though no one really likes him, he's unapologetically evil, and hasn't done a damn thing to really atone for his past deeds and find redemption. I don't think either of them have moved away from the trope.

edited 14th Jun '15 3:56:05 PM by ANewMan

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#40817: Jun 14th 2015 at 6:54:33 PM

It's late but I'll give a yes to Blaine.

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#40818: Jun 14th 2015 at 8:32:57 PM

@ 40820, fair enough, I did ask whether a 5 minute short was enough time to established a character as a monster or not. This seems more like an issue of screen time rather then characterization, frankly Harley feels like a female Joker to me in that short, murdering people for her own amusement. Monsters tend not be the most developed characters in fiction.

Frankly I think there can be a thin line between a GVD and a psycho who kills for the Evulz.

Anyway I have 5 up votes for X-Men Legends Apocalypse, so I will do a write up for

  • X-Men Legends: Apocalypse the Big Bad from the second game, is once again presented as a extremely cruel Social Darwinist. Apocalypse starts the game by conquering Genosha, locking all the Genoshan mutants in a make shift prison so he can test them for harmonic DNA, a particular DNA type that will increase his own power. When the X-Men come to liberate Genohsa, Apoclaypse attempts to destroy the Genoshan Sea Wall, which kill almost every mutant in Genosha. After Genosha is liberated, the X-Men track Apocalypse's forces to the Savage Land, where they attempt to destroy the technology that keeps the Savage Land in tropic temperatures. The destruction of that technology would result in the inhabitants of the Savage Land freezing to death. Later Apocalypse manages to conquer New York City, dropping a bomb that flattens several neighborhoods, just to make room for his tower. Apocalypse again imprisons the mutants and tests them for harmonic DNA, while having his forces attempt to drive the human refugees into the sea, setting up anti air craft guns to prevent anyone from rescuing them. Apocalypse is such a powerful and cruel foe, that the X-Men and the Brotherhood team up to stop him.

I also put this write up here:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/YMMV/XMenLegends

edited 14th Jun '15 8:40:04 PM by Overlord

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#40820: Jun 15th 2015 at 6:47:27 AM

[up] and [up][up]: Thanks guys. I'll do 'em w/ next week's batch.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#40821: Jun 15th 2015 at 7:18:24 AM

I think that in 1991's Cape Fear, it should be noted that he also killed the dog there too. Please add that in.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#40823: Jun 15th 2015 at 7:28:51 AM

Why should it be noted that a dog was killed?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#40824: Jun 15th 2015 at 7:33:40 AM

[up][up]Thank you.

[up][up][up]It's noted in the other one so why not? It's one of the many despicable things each one does.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#40825: Jun 15th 2015 at 7:39:45 AM

[up][up]It's no big deal to add it.
[nja] [down][down] That too.

edited 15th Jun '15 7:52:46 AM by ACW


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