During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
- I'll work on Whoreson Jr. tomorrow.
- Maybe it's because it's late (for me) and I'm tired, but that Jack Reacher villain: loansharking, several murders...he seems bad, and I'm inclined to vote
, but he doesn't seem as bad as the greedy Serial Killer from The Visitorm or the mass murdering Duncans, or the would-be child killer from The Hard Way.
- Is Radovid a Well-Intentioned Extremist? And if Caleb knows what he's doing is wrong, he could still count.
edited 12th Jun '15 8:35:32 PM by ACW
Nah, Menge is devout in his beliefs, even if he is ambitious. Radovid I'm more likely to see counting since he is the reason why all of these purges are going on, but I don't know if he had any redeeming qualities in the books or first game. He's definitely gone through some serious Sanity Slippage in this game, but I'm not sure that excuses him.
Reading the effortpost for Oleg Wormwood, what I find myself reminded of is Lord Odion from the Star Wars: Knight Errant series, who wanted to kill all life in the galaxy because being around living things gave him headaches (which don't really seem to interfere with his day to day life). It's such a disproportionately awful response that it cancels out any sympathy or justification he might otherwise have.
for me.
I have to agree with the assessment of Menge as a person who is only as bad as he is because his position gives him the power to be so; his fellow witch hunters are no better and, indeed, killing him does nothing to stop their pogrom against mages and nonhumans.
@40470 Menge is established in-game as using his position to gain material wealth such as seizing property for the church (him, as their leader) and he personally spend the money seized from Sigi Reuven. He obviously isn't driven entirely by faith. Though you can argue that his subordinates aren't either, Menge is the only person shown to relish in the wealth his position brings.
As for Radovid, he was arguably the most noble or least reasonable of the Northern kings before the third game. His hatred of Phillipa drives him over the edge into Caligula territory.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.Since he's got a large number of "yes" votes and no "nos" to date I thought I'd write-up Oleg.
- Promethean: The Created: Most evil Prometheans are motivated by years of torment they have received at the hands of regular mortals. Not so Oleg Wormwood, Ukrainian mobster, zeka, and would-be bringer of the Apocalypse. Created at the time of Chernobyl disaster, Oleg witnessed the meltdown, and desired to replicate it across the face of the world. Joining the Ukrainian, and then Russian branches of the Mafiya, Oleg killed numerous men (and gave large numbers of prostitutes cancer) in the process of making a name for himself, all while building up the connections and resources he would need to achieve his dream. He has purchased plutonium for terrorist causes, stirred up trouble between India and Pakistan, and otherwise done everything he can to manipulate the world's leaders into creating the nuclear holocaust that he so desperately craves. Emotionally hollow, and incapable of remorse, Oleg has no desire to ever be human, viewing mortals as nothing but tools to aid him in triggering The End of the World as We Know It.
How's that read?
Oh, just an addition about Allen/Hobie.
He actually fragged both the CO and the sergeant. And his unit actually turned him in to the MP (Reacher notes this was very unusual) because they really despised him.
And then, after he finished getting treated, he actually killed an orderly sent to care for him. That way he could frame the real Hobie (a war hero) for both desertion and murder.
@40744: It's actually not really clear if Menge is taking the money for himself or to further the church's cause. I'm inclined to believe the latter. Pretty much everything he says and how he acts supports him being a bigoted zealot. It's further supported by the Doppler Dudu who takes Menge's form and, due to the nature of his powers, gets a look into Menge's mind and how he thinks. Dudu more-or-less states Menge is a violent man who is paranoid about the threat of nonhumans, such as his belief in a Doppler conspiracy out to get him.
@40745: Great Oleg write-up.
edited 12th Jun '15 9:47:18 PM by OccasionalExister
As for Woldarski, not really: there’s the town witch, who is very powerful but has a Heel–Face Turn at the end, but he’s about as awful as a man in his position can be, which is a lot (he brings four goons for protection to the party, and they apparently do nothing when he’s attacked). These acts might not be cartoonishly evil, but they are horrifying, but when Misha hears about them he says they’re just another case of cruelty—most of his horrendous acts are not stated explicitly, but they definitely happened and are definitely horrifying. So it’s not just forcing one girl into prostitution, it’s forcing plenty and disfiguring plenty more.
The vote is currently 5-0 in favour of J. Geil, so here's a write-up:
- J. Geil stands out as the vilest of the minor villains encountered by Jotaro and his friends. Driven by a lust for teenage girls, he raped and killed the young Sherry Polnareff (and attempted to murder her friend as well), prompting her brother Jean Pierre to join the heroes and seek revenge. He boasts that she was just one of countless girls that he raped and killed. When confronted by Polnareff and Kakoyin, he shows himself to be a coward of the highest order, placing his Stand in the eyes of a little boy and telling his opponents that they'll never reach him without gouging out the boy's eyes. When this fails, he escapes and inflicts grievous (possibly fatal) wounds on a man to dress him up as a decoy for a sneak attack. Finally, he attracts a crowd of at least 10 people, then hides his Stand among them before trying to goad Polnareff to mow them down by gloating about what he did to his sister. He dies showing nothing but pride in his actions.
How long should I wait before posting him on JoJo's Bizarre Adventure?
edited 12th Jun '15 11:06:35 PM by BigglesTh9
Okay if The Killer from Film/Snuff102 has been approved here's my first attempted script:
Film/Snuff102: The unamed Serial Killer is a sociopathic and utterly depraved maniac who takes great joy in torture and kill women in the worst way possible, usually by mutitlation, before filming the murder and sending it to internet. He does all this both for insane misogyny or simply for pure evil. In his first scene he masturbates on the body of a dismembered woman in a bathub. He beats a pregnant hooker crushing and later cutting several of her fingers, pulls a bag over her head, which is stomped and kicked repeatedly. The killer then rapes her, stomps her stomach, bites one of her nipples off, mutilates her genitals with a knife, and cuts her open. He beats a porn star with a hammer, rips her eyes out her eyes are ripped out, asphyxiates her with a bag, knocks out her teeth with a chisel, and then rapes her. When a female journalist investigates on the killings, The Killer, revealed to be a film critic she interviewed not long ago, kidnaps her too. He forces her to watch him beating a woman to death with an hammer before preparing to kill her or, worse, tortureher to death with an hook. In his last moments he tries to kill the journalist with a machete but he then discards it and tries to strangle her to death prefering giving her a slow and agonized death.
Oh, and
for Paradise's Jackal.
edited 13th Jun '15 3:34:09 AM by ST89
Yeah that entry is terrible. Too much gory detail that isn't needed; you could skip out all the specifics of the murders beyond them being cruel and sadistic and put in "kills several women through Cold-Blooded Torture" or something of the like.
Maybe is better like that:
Film/Snuff102: The unamed Serial Killer is a sociopathic and utterly depraved maniac who takes great joy in horribly killing women through Cold-Blooded Torture before filming the murders and sending it all to internet. He does all this both for insane misogyny and simply pure evil. One of his victims is also a pregnant hooker. When a female journalist investigates on the killings, The Killer, revealed to be a film critic she interviewed not long ago, kidnaps her too. He forces her to watch him beating a woman to death with an hammer before preparing to kill her or, worse, torture her to death with an hook. In his last moments he tries to kill the journalist with a machete but he then discards it and tries to strangle her to death prefering giving her a slow and agonized death. A flashback reveals that the Killer was also involved in necrophilia.
edited 14th Jun '15 4:26:33 AM by ST89
Because the example indentation would get screwy, I've created World Of Darkness.
To answer the question on the characterization of the Jackal from Paradise, he is pretty much one of those flat, one dimensional villains in most of his appearances, but a bulk of his personality is seen when he goes to take a drink from the well and argues with the man he hired about payment. The Jackal refuses to pay the man since he didn't get Sarah, but the man points out they got plenty of girls already, so how is one les going to be a problem ? The jackal then says he wanted Sarah for himself, then points out that the water tastes dull, slashes the mans throat and pushes him into the well, saying "maybe that will improve it".
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Thanks. So currently Vykos is the only one from the Old World to count?
BTW, I'll do J. Geil and the Haunted Mansion dude next week, to make sure there are no objections.
Oh, and
edited 13th Jun '15 5:05:36 AM by ACW
No worries. I plan to start reading Part V soon, so I expect to do a new write-up for Cioccolata (after checking for potential redeeming qualities) in the next few weeks.
On an unrelated note, something piqued my curiosity as I was browsing: why do some Verses have collective CM pages (Arrowverse and Whoniverse) but not others with a similar number of C Ms (e.g. Buffyverse)?
edited 13th Jun '15 6:30:03 AM by BigglesTh9

Oh, yes:
I'll give a yes to Oleg.
Yes to the Jackal from Paradise...that sounds like a large bodycount. Does he get enough characterization?
Any more info on Wodarski there? What are the other villains like?
Add a yes for Allen/Hobiee here.