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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#39727: May 22nd 2015 at 5:11:26 PM

Will do a Bertron write-up later tonight.

[up][up]By the way, given that Joe is considerably more powerful than he is, we may want to bring up Toecutter at some point. I sure as hell don't remember his having any good points.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#39728: May 22nd 2015 at 5:12:29 PM

I need to see the original film again. My only fear is Toecutter might share too much with Johnny, who's the only one of the gang to commit crimes independent of his orders.

And here is an interview with Immortan Joe himself!....he does consider himself a wronged civil servant for what it's worth (kidding there, it's an interview with Joe's actor, Hugh Keays-Byrne-who incidentally also played Toecutter nearly 40 years who gives the interview in character. It's awesome

edited 22nd May '15 5:14:22 PM by Lightysnake

Camberf Since: Jan, 2012
#39729: May 22nd 2015 at 5:17:32 PM

Toecutter is upset when one of his men is killed, and it seems genuine.

[tup] Joe

edited 22nd May '15 5:31:18 PM by Camberf

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#39730: May 22nd 2015 at 5:25:04 PM

[tup] to Immortan Joe. Not all that familiar with the Mad Max series, but from what you say Lighty, Joe sounds like he sticks out like a sore thumb compared to the other villains.

edited 22nd May '15 5:25:54 PM by Beast

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#39731: May 22nd 2015 at 5:28:12 PM

[tup] for Immortan Joe. And Bertron.

edited 22nd May '15 5:33:34 PM by AustinDR

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#39733: May 22nd 2015 at 6:02:58 PM

Joe's definitely a keep.

I'm still all for Robotnik qualifying; he's responsible for roboticizing thousands, stripping creatures of their free will, and turning Mobius into a hellish dystopia, Villain Decay or not, which is... out of the norm in kid's shows. The comic version definitely counts, as he's a lot more active about his evil and, unlike Eggman (who, may I add, had a lot more resources than Robotnik by the time of the Super Genesis Wave, by far his worst action), doesn't have any regret over his actions. The only character I might really see getting the ax on the comic list is Stryker, and even then his endgame is genocide. The same thing with Black Doom, in that regard.

edited 22nd May '15 6:04:04 PM by Scraggle

ANewMan A total has-been. Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A total has-been.
#39734: May 22nd 2015 at 8:22:03 PM

Sat AM Robotnik stays on. His actions were sufficiently heinous and he never showcased any redeeming qualities. Archie Comics Robotnik also qualifies, though he's a strange example of a character whose status as a total villain with zero redeeming features was very much Played for Laughs in the earlier issues and then got played increasingly more straight as Cerebus Syndrome kicked in.

edited 22nd May '15 10:09:58 PM by ANewMan

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#39735: May 22nd 2015 at 9:00:06 PM

[tup] Joe

edited 22nd May '15 9:00:41 PM by emperors

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
KyleJacobs from DC - Southern efficiency, Northern charm Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#39736: May 22nd 2015 at 9:08:44 PM

Easy [tup] for Joe. Also, you should all go see Fury Road, it's amazing.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#39738: May 22nd 2015 at 9:15:00 PM

[up]The former. Goddamn amazing film.

KyleJacobs from DC - Southern efficiency, Northern charm Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#39739: May 22nd 2015 at 9:17:07 PM

Legitimately good. This is one of those rare cases where it really is every bid as good as the hype would have you think, if not even better.

EDIT: for perspective, after this movie ended I was practically paralyzed in my seat with my mouth open while I tried to make sense of the brilliance I'd just seen. Last time that happened was the first time I saw Apocalypse Now.

edited 22nd May '15 9:19:47 PM by KyleJacobs

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#39740: May 22nd 2015 at 9:20:27 PM

Well, Mr. Immortan at least looks really cool. You said this is the same guy that played the villain in the '70s original? Cool.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#39741: May 22nd 2015 at 9:26:21 PM

Oh, yes. George Miller loves reusing his actors and Hugh Keays-Byrne does a wicked good job.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#39742: May 23rd 2015 at 12:06:13 AM

"The Ayatollah of Rock'n'ROLLAH!" Chris Jericho?
Anyway, I was only gonna say "this guy also directed the original film." I didn't even KNOW he directed Babe and Happy Feet.
Anyway, I'll give a [tup] for Joe, assuming that A) the comic is definitely canon and that b) the WIE bit on his character page is BS.
I need to see this movie.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#39743: May 23rd 2015 at 12:12:17 AM

Alright. Forget forcing Janet to be fired. Can we all agree everything else Cox did qualifies him?

Morgenthaler Since: Feb, 2016
#39744: May 23rd 2015 at 1:03:09 AM

Definite keep for Immortan Joe. Worst Mad Max villain by far, and he doesn't even have Humungus' care for his men.

And yes, this new movie is awesome. It's not often that something manages to combine Feminist Fantasy and Rated M for Manly so brilliantly. They're already talking about a sequel with Furiosa.

You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
ST89 Since: Feb, 2015
#39745: May 23rd 2015 at 1:22:01 AM

Allright with Cox for me. About Kadir Suleiman, we need some clues if he truly loved his brother or if it's once again the "Zakhaev - Ronan - Volgin - Fayed" routine. In that case then [tup]

Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#39746: May 23rd 2015 at 1:26:54 AM

Since I've been playing Dying Light on and off for the past week, I'll give a [tdown] to Rais. As stated previously his motivation boils down to the GRE failing to save his brother and him holding them responsible. A scientist who knew him before he went all warlord says he was a frankly horrible person beforehand but that losing his brother pushed him off the deep end, he was initially working for the GRE because they promised to save his brother, and he does say the man he was died along with his brother which is a confession enough that he cared.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#39747: May 23rd 2015 at 3:57:46 AM

  • Batman: Earth One:
    • Volume One: Mayor Oswald Cobblepot note  takes Corrupt Politician to new levels. Cobblepot runs Gotham like his own private Mafia and tried to have Thomas Wayne killed for running against him as Mayor. He represses the courts through fear and intimidation, allows crime to run rampant and utilizes an insane Serial Killer called Birthday Boy by providing him with young, female victims. When a judge fails to stop Harvey and Jessica Dent from investigating him, Cobblepot has the judge's eldest daughter given to Birthday Boy in payment for the assassination of a corrupt officer who has become a liability, promising that should he fail again, the judge's younger daughter will be next. When he finally confronts Batman, Cobblepot tries to slice him to pieces with a sword umbrella, laughing about the corrupt nature of Gotham City and how his only regret was that a mugger got to Thomas Wayne before his plan went off.
    • Volume Two: This volume's Big Bad, The Riddler, is a nobody attempting to be somebody. To that end, after Mayor Cobblepot's death, he takes over one fifth of the criminal empire and has aspirations on the other 80 percent. Framing his assassinations as mass killings, the Riddler rigs an elevator with a bomb and gives the inhabitants sixty seconds to answer a riddle, killing all on board (including his target) when time is up. His next target is killed when he bombs an art museum. The third is onboard a public train with families and children aboard. When Batman gets the riddle correct, the Riddler blows up the train anyways and later attempts to blow up the police precinct to tie up loose ends.
  • Superman/Doomsday: Hunter/Prey: Bertron, an alien Mad Scientist, was obsessed with creating the so-called "ultimate lifeform." Every day he exposed a newly cloned child to the harsh environment of prehistoric Krypton; when the child died, Bertron would incorporate its memories into the next child, which would be exposed the following day. Bertron continued this process across the course of his lifetime, slaughtering, in his own words, "thousands upon thousands" of children in an effort to achieve the result he wanted. The creature he finally created was, unsurprisingly, completely insane, and sought to destroy everything it encountered, butchering all the life on ancient Krypton, including Bertron himself, before moving onto the rest of the galaxy. Its name was Doomsday, and in it, all of Bertron's malice and Lack of Empathy would live on, devastating all that it encountered.
  • The Exorcist III: James Venamun is known as the Gemini Killer due to his carving the Gemini symbol into his victims' hands. A man so evil he became a demon upon execution, Venamun was placed into the dying body of father Damien Karras and while the body recovered, Venamun ended up in an insane asylum. Using his powers to possess comatose or feeble-minded patients, Venamun murders multiple people in hideously ritualistic ways, including a young boy. Venamun plans to kill forever and never cease, using Father Karras's body upon his exit to, as he says, kill the innocent and Karras's friends, all while Karras is forever trapped within the body, Forced to Watch the depravities his own hands commit.
  • God of Gamblers Returns: Chau Siu-Chee is an illegal gambler known as the "Devil Of Gamblers". When Mr. Chu decides to put the worlds greatest gambler in charge of managing his "Save The World's Kids" fund, Chau decides to defeat Ko Chun in a gambling competition to prove himself the best and obtain the money. When he and the lawyers show up to tell Ko Chun's pregnant wife of the money and Chau's intents to gamble against Ko Chun, both the wife and lawyers call him out on his rudeness. Chau responds by killing the lawyers before cutting out the wife's stomach and killing her and her unborn baby. Chau later sends his men to kill Ko Chun's new friend when he fails to pay his gambling debts. Chau forces one of his men to gamble with him, and amputates his hands when he loses. When the minion turns on him and tries to warn Ko Chun and his allies, Chau kills the minion and sends his men to kill Ko Chun and his allies, including a young boy.
  • Mission Kashmir: In this Bollywood film, Hilal Kohistani is a brutal Islamic terrorist dedicated to carrying out "Mission Kashmir." Brainwashing young boys who have lost people to violence, Kohistani has them carry out terrorist attacks for him to kill the innocent. When one is injured, Kohistani murders him to deceive the authorities with fake plans on the corpse and tells the other young men the victim killed himself for the cause. It is revealed Kohistani's Mission Kashmir is to bomb the holiest Muslim and Hindu sites in Kashmir when they are full of worshippers so as to start a religious war to rip India apart.
  • The Power of One (1992 film adaptation): Jaapie Botha, otherwise known as The Judge, was an Afrikaner bully who took an immediate disliking to PK because of his English heritage. Jaapie later tried to sacrifice him and his pet chicken, Mother Courage, to Adolf Hitler; he kills Courage, and he tries to do the same thing to PK after he had humiliated him in front of the other children. Years later, Botha became the sergeant for Colonel Breyton, and he was given the task of investigating PK's multiracial gym. Once there, he severely beats Gideon with a whip, causing him to lose his eye, and he attacks the other boxers. Jaapie later aided Breyton in several attacks, one of which would end up killing PK's Love Interest; they then started a massacre in Alexandra, all in their pursuit of PK and Gideon. Jaapie was found in the middle of savagely beating a boxing promoter, and he still expressed a desire to kill him, even when PK willingly gave himself up.

edited 24th May '15 11:24:31 AM by ACW

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#39748: May 23rd 2015 at 4:24:52 AM

[up] What about Delmar writeup? I posted it.

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#39750: May 23rd 2015 at 4:52:09 AM

[up] I would want a few more votes.

edited 23rd May '15 4:52:26 AM by emperors

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