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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

LordXavius Doesn't even like this username from many fandoms Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
Doesn't even like this username
#38876: Apr 28th 2015 at 6:53:54 AM

A [tup] for Ra, and I think I'll give Ogre a [tdown] for the reason(s) Ambar mentioned.

ANewMan A total has-been. Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A total has-been.
#38879: Apr 28th 2015 at 7:57:34 AM

[tup] Ra, [tdown] Ogre (the latter reminds me of the OUAT Cruella Deville that I brought up - horrible person who does horrible things for no good reason unlike most of the show's other villains, but falls below the heinous standard.)

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#38880: Apr 28th 2015 at 8:50:23 AM

[tup] to Ra.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#38881: Apr 28th 2015 at 8:53:25 AM

From MLP Analysis

"* Complete Monster: Lethal Aurora is by far the most sadistic villain in the Analyst community. As Mage's Superpowered Evil Side, she murders her good side then procedes to kidnap seven other analysts and ask them a series of questions. Killing them in horrible fashions if their answers disagree with hers. (Or if she's merely bored). As the murders continue, it becomes apparent that she's taking a sick pleasure out of the power she holds over the other analysts and to this day, her cruelty has yet to be truly replicated."

Superpowered Evil Side and Played for Laughs [tdown]

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#38882: Apr 28th 2015 at 9:04:10 AM

[up]Well, regarding Superpowered Evil Side, we DO have Dark Marik/Yami Marik and Amon (who apparently possessed someone, thus becoming his SES); and somehow the already-evil Cell (DBZ) also has one.

Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#38883: Apr 28th 2015 at 9:25:27 AM

@Tyk5919: The worst any other character has been seen doing is shooting enemies (who shoot back, of course) and kidnappings between gangs for ransoms.

Itcher is trying to calm everyone down, Jessica hadn't committed any act of violence prior to finishing Red off, most of Itcher's colleagues who aren't explicitly muscle are simply employees.

Red is the only named character in the whole AsteriodQuest verse who has even attempted sexual assault. The only other character who seems to like violence for its own sake is Blood Knight Rokoa (even Red's sociopathic bosses never do anything gratuitously; there's always an aim behind each of their actions).

And Wretched Hive may be too big a word, it's more of a Desert Punk environment. Most people are just trying to make a living and would at worst swindle you. Of course, that's not where the action (or the money, adventure, etc.) is. All viewpoint characters (The trading post's AI, Hok, Tin, Rokoa, Karri, Itcher) save Rokoa prefer jobs conducted cleanly and with minimum bloodshed, and Rokoa wouldn't target a noncombatant.

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
Klavice (Elder Troper)
Lunacorva Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#38886: Apr 28th 2015 at 12:02:44 PM

Lethal Aurora was not Played for Laughs in anyway whatsoever. There is a REASON she's considered a Knight of Cerebus. And Word of God makes it clear that she is her own personality and NOT simply a split personality of Mage. I think a better term would be Enemy Within / Enemy Without

edited 28th Apr '15 12:04:23 PM by Lunacorva

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Lunacorva Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#38889: Apr 28th 2015 at 12:42:23 PM

@Medinoc: I see. In that case, [tup] for Red. Anyone else have any votes for him?

[tup] for Ra.

[tdown] for Ogre. Now normally, he'd qualify. But since this is Gotham City we're talking about here, someone like Ogre would need a much longer list of heinous deeds before he could qualify as a CM.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#38890: Apr 28th 2015 at 2:14:03 PM

I'll vote for Ogre once I see the episode. Leaning on no.

Yes on Ra and Lethal Aurora.

Shadow?
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#38891: Apr 28th 2015 at 3:51:58 PM

I will note, by the way, before somebody brings it up, that the tier system is not an issue in the Gotham example under discussion. The Ogre is rich, physically powerful, and can operate without fear of arrest because the cops are scared of him. Oswald Cobblepot, the future Penguin, is, conversely, a physically crippled, emotionally stunted street thug who is living on borrowed time. He still matches or exceeds him in evil, and that's if we're counting the women The Ogre killed offscreen. If we're not, The Penguin exceeds him in heinousness by a mile.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#38892: Apr 28th 2015 at 4:14:39 PM

[up]Speaking of Penguin, is he disqualified for loving his mother, or is the character page inaccurate?

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#38893: Apr 28th 2015 at 4:16:48 PM

[up][up] So I guess a villain will have to commit mass murder on that show to beat Penguin in the heinous department right? Well maybe Dollmaker will still count.

I can also watch the Batman vs. Robin movie to see if anyone counts, Dollmaker appears in that movie too, but from the clips I have seen he seems psychotic and likely does not count.

Also looks Five Nights at Freddy's will get another game, so maybe we will get some new background info on the Purple Guy/Murderer.

edited 28th Apr '15 6:07:50 PM by Overlord

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#38894: Apr 28th 2015 at 4:29:29 PM

Dollmaker from Batman vs. Robin doesn't count. He's not in it enough to do much.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#38895: Apr 28th 2015 at 5:15:50 PM

ACW: Yes, Oswald does truly love his mother.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#38896: Apr 28th 2015 at 6:00:50 PM

[up][up][up]Pretty much. And that's not taking into account Falcone, Maroni, and all the other gangsters, or the first wave of proto-supervillains who have arrived.

@ACW

Penguin loves his mother, and also expresses an odd, but seemingly genuine, gratitude towards Gordon for sparing his life.

edited 28th Apr '15 6:01:31 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#38898: Apr 28th 2015 at 7:21:13 PM

I noticed Zouken Mutou was removed from the Fate/Stay Night YMMV page. I don't remember him being voted down for any reason not to mention he is still listed under the main CM video game and visual novel page.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#38899: Apr 28th 2015 at 7:34:02 PM

....he wasn't voted down. Why the heck's he gone?

edited 28th Apr '15 7:34:19 PM by Lightysnake

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#38900: Apr 28th 2015 at 9:13:39 PM

The troper who cut it seemed to justify it more personally (the edit summary was unfinished) and didn't consult the thread first. Someone PM them?


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