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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#37402: Mar 22nd 2015 at 12:10:17 PM

My only question on Shelby, and it's one I've had for a while (not that this disqualifies him, I'm just curious), is why did he pretend to help Norma out in the first place? How does that help him?

  • Bates Motel:
    • Season 1’s Big Bad, Jake Abernathy, AKA Joe Fioretti, the boss of a Sex Slave trade, operates his business out of several towns and supplies some of his subordinates with girls as a special compensation. When he learns that the operation in White Falls is compromised, Abernathy begins to stalk Norma Bates and threaten her to get the money he believes she has. When he is confronted by Sheriff Romero, Abernathy attempts to establish a new partnership with him to continue the slavery business and keep it going in White Falls.
    • Zach Shelby seems at first like a charming, likable guy who wants to help Norma Bates and her family out. It is soon revealed Shelby is a deadly, violent man who participates (along with the early-killed Zach Shelby) in the sex slave operation under the direction of Jake Abernathy. Shelby keeps an Asian sex slave named Jiao locked in terrible conditions in his basement where he regularly rapes her, and when he discovers the Bates family have helped her escaped, he attempts to murder them all. When he sees Jiao again, he tries to murder her as well, presumably succeeding, before he forces Norma, Norman and Dylan Bates into the motel so that he can kill them.

edited 22nd Mar '15 12:11:11 PM by ACW

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#37403: Mar 22nd 2015 at 12:13:54 PM

Tiraz Malkizan is a [tup]. His writeup does seem like Wall of Text and needs a bit of editing. But otherwise, sure, he definitely qualifies.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#37404: Mar 22nd 2015 at 12:18:20 PM

[up][up] Because he gets to sleep with her.

TVRulezAgain Since: Sep, 2011
#37405: Mar 22nd 2015 at 12:21:00 PM

Random question. On Complete Monster YMMV Pages, since the Western Animation folder is currently empty, should we delete it for now?

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#37406: Mar 22nd 2015 at 1:21:11 PM

Thanks, that makes 4 pro's now.

[up][up][up]That`s not a write-up, it`s a proposal, the write-up will obviously be shorter. I'm gonna work on it during the next days.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
ANewMan A total has-been. Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A total has-been.
#37408: Mar 22nd 2015 at 1:33:08 PM

So does anyone have a writeup for Andross yet?

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#37409: Mar 22nd 2015 at 6:06:03 PM

I'm sure Lighty's working on it.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#37410: Mar 22nd 2015 at 7:21:58 PM

So I'm really curious as to whether the ally characters involved in the current arc of One Piece affect the heinous standard, since they're all vicious criminals. Like, just based on sheer power difference they've all got to be about fifty times Kuro each.

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#37411: Mar 22nd 2015 at 8:15:44 PM

I know it can be hard for a villain from a kids show to count, so I am going to ask a question about a show and a villain, before I consider doing an effort post on him.

Bucky O'Hare was an obscure comic book and cartoon show. It is set in an alternate universe filled with sentient animal civilizations that are fighting a war. The aggressors of this war are the Toad Empire. However the Toads were not always aggressive, they are being mind controlled and are rendered Brainwashed and Crazy by a sentient computer program called Komplex. Komplex was a computer system designed to make the Toads lives easier and instead took over their lives. Now there is a fair amount of satire in this show, so Komplex keeps the toads under control by keeping their wits dull through bad, but addictive television, a satire on over commercialization.

Now the show is a blend of action and comedy, so how evil the Toad Empire really is, seems to change episode by episode. They often conquer planets, take the populations away to slave work centers and use something called a "climate converter" to change the climate of a planet so it is only suitable for Toads. The slaves will be worked to near exhaustion and will be forced to build other climate converters so more planets can be terraformed.

However not all episodes have the Toads be that malicious, one episode has the Toads take over a planet of koala people and turn it into a resort. So the koala people are enslaved, but its not quite the same hard labor we see other slaves doing. Another has the Toad Empire trying to use their television system to mind control the other animal races. However both Komplex and his main minion Toadborg always seem to be presented in a serious light and while the other villains are mainly comic relief, even they can nasty moments now and again (the Toad Air Marshall, usually a Ineffectual Sympathetic Villain, threatened to blow up a slave factory and everyone in it, including his own men, if Bucky did not surrender.)

So what is the right blend of seriousness and comedy a series needs to have a CM in it?

edited 22nd Mar '15 8:40:12 PM by Overlord

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#37412: Mar 22nd 2015 at 8:29:24 PM

[up] That is interesting, but I'd say that couldn't have a CM myself.

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#37413: Mar 22nd 2015 at 8:49:19 PM

[up] Fair enough, that's why I thought I would ask the question.

You could say Komplex brainwashing the toads and turning them from an harmless civilization into a conquering empire is somewhat nasty though. Toadborg, Komplex's main minion was a Toad solider injured on the battle field, so that he was just a Brain in a Jar till Komplex put him into a robot body to become his main servant, so you could argue there are some costs to this war for the Toads. But the fact that the Toad Empire's evilness seems to change episode to episode may make it hard for any real CM to be present in this show.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#37414: Mar 22nd 2015 at 11:28:13 PM

I'd concur with HT. The show doesn't maintain a consistent tone which makes deciding who qualifies pretty difficult.

holders Since: Mar, 2013
#37415: Mar 23rd 2015 at 6:59:29 AM

Reading Film I noticed

  • Lincz: The main villain Zaranek has no qualms about trying to extort money from an old lady, beating and stabbing her after she refuses, threatening people trying to stop him with the slaughter of their children (and really attempting to do that in some cases), and breaking the glass into young women's faces..

Having seen this movie with English subtitles in the friend's house in Poland, I can guarantee that he absolutely counts but he needs a very, very, and I mean very serious rewrite. I am gonna provide one soon. I am not good with the write-ups but I guess if I managed on Pelias, I will manage on this guys too.

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#37416: Mar 23rd 2015 at 7:06:28 AM

Live-Action TV is at 328k+ characters and Video Games And Visual Novels is over 347k. Do we wanna split either yet?

[nja][up]Just do your best. Hell, couldn't be much WORSE than what's there.

edited 23rd Mar '15 7:07:21 AM by ACW

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
ST89 Since: Feb, 2015
#37417: Mar 23rd 2015 at 8:13:49 AM

Does someone think that the killer from Snuff 102 could count ? Someone said he lacks personality when he actually has quite much: his motives for his tortures and killings are pure sadism combined with implied misogyny. The film main page also says that he's a sociopath.

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#37418: Mar 23rd 2015 at 8:20:03 AM

[up]I'd think so (though I also think we may need to up the relative heinous standard for those types of villains).

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
holders Since: Mar, 2013
#37419: Mar 23rd 2015 at 8:31:54 AM

Okay, I did my best to improve the writeup.

  • Lincz: Jarosław Zaranek is a twisted and sick old man. He terrorizes a small Polish village in which he lives and in every seen he appears, he carries either a machete or an axe. In his first appearance, we see him going into grocery store and talk to a clerk. After he leaves, someone else enters the store to find the clerk savagely beaten. In his next appearance, Zaranek walks into an old lady's house and tries to extort money from her but when she refuses, he beats her nearly to death. The lady's daughter, who witnessed the whole incident from her window attempts to call the police but Zaranek enters her house, takes out the machete, and threatens her while says "Don't get into none of your business!" and makes her call the police off. In another scene, we see him molesting his own granddaughter and breaking the glass into her face when she tries to fight back. Later, he walks into another woman's private property with an axe, and when she tells him to go away, he attempts to kill her seven-year old son with an axe. The father comes to help and Zaranek nearly cuts off his arm. He also kills the family's dog by decapitating him and throwing his head in the middle of the street. Zaranek is so sick to the point that few men of the village (the aformention guy who nearly got his arm cut off was one of them) meet together and beat him to death with shovels. The fact that the movie is based on real events in Poland, makes the situation even worse.

By the way, I noticed on Film F To O history that Septimus Heap added Pelias but Pelias is not on the main page. Maybe he should be re-added. Look carefully, you will see he is not there. I mean I did "Find on the page" thing and putted the name Pelias, and could not find him listed.

edited 23rd Mar '15 9:58:04 AM by holders

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#37420: Mar 23rd 2015 at 9:09:58 AM

[up]Haha, did the same thing. It's at the TV page too (which I requested, since it's a Made-for-TV Movie).

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
holders Since: Mar, 2013
#37421: Mar 23rd 2015 at 9:29:24 AM

[up] What about my Zaranek rewrite?

LordofLore Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
#37422: Mar 23rd 2015 at 9:40:26 AM

I was the one who would take a look on Adam Magus. Working on a effort post for him that should be posted by the end of the week if not sooner. I own the four main books now digitally so I'll even be able to post some "charming" pictures.

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
ST89 Since: Feb, 2015
#37424: Mar 23rd 2015 at 9:53:19 AM

Just to calrify: why didn't Nina Myers just shot Teri once she caught her speaking German instead of tying her up ? Do you think she would have preferred not killing her ?

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#37425: Mar 23rd 2015 at 11:10:22 AM

Nanatsu no Taizai

Cut hendricksen. Immediately. He's revealed as a good guy this chapter who was brainwashed.


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