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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#35376: Feb 10th 2015 at 11:34:45 AM

[up]Only problem is that we'd then have to go through each CM page and make sure the quotes were good.
BTW: Toivoa, Klavice: Could you please put Dickson and Gedouin on the appropriate YMMV pages? Makes tweaking easier.
As for Shark: His actions seem heinous enough, but the whole show seems so out there.

edited 10th Feb '15 11:37:52 AM by ACW

Klavice (Elder Troper)
#35377: Feb 10th 2015 at 2:00:23 PM

If we were to make a Xeno series page (a Complete Monster page for the entire Xeno series, Xenogears, Xenosaga, and finally, Xenoblade) then we could have this as a quote. "That girl's screams were so lovely!" -Metal Face, Xenoblade in a similar vein to Kefka's "Nothing can beat the music of a thousand voices screaming in unison!" And yes, I'll add Dickson now. Edit: Just added Dickson. Had to spoiler tag it because people might accidentally click on YMMV and be spoiled, if they don't have spoiler tags on.

edited 10th Feb '15 2:14:43 PM by Klavice

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#35379: Feb 10th 2015 at 2:23:40 PM

Write up for Atkin:

  • Wolf Creek Desolation Game: Sergeant Atkin was Mick's superior during his time in the Vietnam War. Atkin trained Mick and helped him go from an "amateur" to a "professional" killer. Atkin cut a deal with the elder of a starving village, so that they would get scraps of food in exchange for allowing Atkin to rape their women. Atkin introduced Mick to this practice, and let him join in. Mick and Atkin were very sadistic, often torturing the women. One of Mick's rape victims ended up dying, but Atkin and Mick still continued this practice. One night, two men came across them during their rape session. Atkin and Mick shot them dead thinking they were enemy soldiers, showing no remorse when they learned they weren't. Atkin later taught Mick the "Head on a stick" technique, severing the spine of a terrified enemy soldier cowering in his pajamas. Atkin allowed Mick to stab the already paralyzed man in the back again, and saw off his head and mount it on a spike. When Atkin and Mick returned to the village, the elder scolded them for killing the two men earlier, and hit Atkin with her cane. Atkin snapped the cane, stabbed her in the throat with it, and raped and killed all the women he and Mick could. Atkin later tried to kill Mick out of fear that Mick would talk about what they did, despite their Villainous Friendship.

Edit: there is ONE thing that MAY disqualify Mick: At the start of the second book, when he sees Eddy's ghost (or at least thinks he does), he tells him he's sorry about his death. This takes place 30-31 years before the first film though.

edited 10th Feb '15 2:40:22 PM by bobg

jjj
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#35380: Feb 10th 2015 at 2:47:20 PM

I'm sure he got over it.

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#35381: Feb 10th 2015 at 2:56:34 PM

One thing that COULD disqualify Atkin is that his ghost (or Mick's vision of it) appears proud of him for becoming a successful killer. It is never clearified however if the ghosts are real or if Mick is just going crazy. It's pretty ambiguous really. Mick also seems happy to see him (than again, Mick killed him so...).

jjj
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#35382: Feb 10th 2015 at 2:59:29 PM

Sounds more like delusions of grandeur than an outright redeemable trait.

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#35383: Feb 10th 2015 at 3:05:12 PM

Should Mick's entry be updated to include the information from the books?

jjj
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#35385: Feb 10th 2015 at 3:06:44 PM

[up]X4 I'm not sure being proud of how evil someone else is counts as redeeming.

[nja]P.S. Please add the Sergeant to Wolf Creek so I can tweak. Looks pretty good.

edited 10th Feb '15 3:09:51 PM by ACW

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#35386: Feb 10th 2015 at 3:18:33 PM

If that was the Sargent's ghost, it sounds to me like he's proud of what Mick has become, like how a writer is proud of a book he written. In Eddy's case, sounds like Mick got over it.

Also [tup] for adding book info on Mitch's entry, but -and this is a side question- how can we be sure the books are canon ? Many slasher films got novel spinoffs, but those are never considered canon, but movies that never got to be.

edited 10th Feb '15 3:21:30 PM by Beast

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#35387: Feb 10th 2015 at 3:28:31 PM

[up]I think a factor in favor of them being canon is the fact that the author is the films' director/writer.

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#35388: Feb 10th 2015 at 4:36:16 PM

How is this for a rewrite?:

  • Mick Taylor is one of the most monstrous horror villains ever created. An Australia Seriaillrapist, and torturer, he preys upon tourists visiting the Wolf Creek area and falsely befriends them before taking them back o his home and slowly torturing them to death, all of this solely For the Evulz. He has killed several dozen people, including an entire family (even a little girl). One of his favorite torture methods is "head on a stick" where he severs their spine to turn them into a human vegetable. At the end of the second film, he frames one of his victims for his crimes, leading to the ruination of the victims life. The prequel novels wolf Creek: Origin and Wolf Creek: Desolation Game make him even more of a monster. While he is revealed to have a Freudian Excuse (his father was abusive, he witnessed his father killing dogs, he was bullied at camp, and he was traumatized after accidently killing his sister and getting an innocent man killed for it), the depravity of his actions negate any possible sympathy. After killing his parents (including his mother who, unlike his father, loved him dearly), and getting kicked out of camp after beating a bully so bad he knocked his eyeball from its socket leaving it dangling by the eyestalk, Mick went to work at a ranch. During his time at the ranch, he killed a dog and force fed it to it's owner before killing him too. While being pursued by four other serial killers, Mick tied up his girlfriend Rose and used her as rape bait to lure the killers into a trap, killing one named Jerry (see below) by gutting him and force feeding him his own intestines. During his time in the Vietnam War, he raped several women and later slaughtered their village, and stabbed an already paralyzed man in the back before cutting his head off and mounting it on a pike. After returning from the war, he took a tour guide with ten people back to his home. When one of the people escaped and returned with a cop, they found all but one girl dead. Mick killed both men and raped, tortured, and killed the woman after performing "head on a stick" with her. Mick later went to a bar and killed all the occupants, resulting in six deaths.

Sorry it's so long but he did a lot of bad things. We have had longer (Palpatine).

edited 10th Feb '15 4:54:49 PM by bobg

jjj
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#35389: Feb 10th 2015 at 5:06:07 PM

Palpatine's possibly getting rewritten. Let's see if anyone can condense [up]

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#35390: Feb 10th 2015 at 6:31:25 PM

I'd suggest dividing the entries from the book universe and the movie universe into two separate entries. And "Palpatine was longer" is absolutely no excuse for drabbling on into a wall of text- the reason Palpatine is so long is because he has so much on his laundry list we have to make it that long. The only reason a similar figure like the Joker doesn't have an entry that winds on forever is because we can divide all his actions into his respective works.

edited 10th Feb '15 6:33:58 PM by Scraggle

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#35391: Feb 10th 2015 at 7:04:04 PM

This may seem like a stupid question, but how would we divide it, the books don't have their own pages and if we were to create them we would need to decide which p;age to put it on (origin or desolation).

jjj
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#35392: Feb 10th 2015 at 7:09:18 PM

@ACW: Hey, I warned you from the get-go that the show's odd.tongue But still, he is the bad guy, and he does do a lot of destruction for his own selfish desires, to the point where Rectangular Businessman realizes he's starting to get out of control.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#35393: Feb 11th 2015 at 2:50:26 AM

@ Lightysnake - Sorry it took so long for me to reply about Vykos, and I'll follow your lead with the female pronouns. Saying she has more torture than the average Tzimisce because of her age doesn't really mitigate the fact that the Tzimisce almost to a vampire strive towards being what she is. I mean their whole hat is torturing people, and the Sabbat's whole goal is to be as monstrous as possible.

And with the Anarch Revolt, yeah Vyokos (under his birth name of whatever) may have done really horrible things, but the Sabbat itself is more than capable of doing heinous things without her influence. I mean case in point their games in Montreal where you have:

  • Bobbing for Mortals: Dumping a bunch of humans neck deep in seed stock, then tying a feral vampire to a bungee cord and watching him bounce around trying to kill humans.
  • Fatality Fun: Basically Mortal Kombat, except with helpless mortals getting slaughtered.
  • Grey Cup football: Grab one human from one end of the city and try to get them intact to the other side of the city. They commonly have to find new "balls" as most humans get torn limb from limb and they prefer their victims to be screaming
  • Playing in Traffic: Pulling upside another car in traffic and using mind control to make other drivers forget how to drive.

The repeatedly absorbing and regurgitating of her sire is pretty uniquely heinous, but diablirising (stealing a vampire's soul for power) is par for the course. Killing someone for questioning an order I would say is par for the course for the World of Darkness as a whole, vampires send their lesser on suicide missions all the time, vampires kill their underlings for petty reasons all the time.

I know this is a lot to ask since it seems like you and I are the only ones having this discussion, but could you do up a list of Vykos' heinous deeds so we could compare her to the heinous standard of Vampire the Masquerade (I'm excluding the rest of the World of Darkness because that is a lot of heinous stuff to work through). We can skip specifying wether or not she has any redeeming traits because she really doesn't; the closest thing is at the start of the Time of Judgement where he gets forced back into his original male form and is willing to work with former enemies against the Tzimisce antediluvian (one of the 'grandchildren' of the original Vampire Caine and the originator of the Tzimisce clan) and that is pure self-interest since said antediluvian was aiming to absorb all of it's descendants (along with the rest of the world) for power.

Imperator100 Since: Apr, 2012
#35394: Feb 11th 2015 at 3:41:02 AM

Alright, I seriously doubt anyone is gonna object to Nagash being included, so I'm gonna go ahead and do the write-up. I'll post it here when I'm done.

edited 11th Feb '15 3:41:18 AM by Imperator100

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#35395: Feb 11th 2015 at 7:42:03 AM

Hope nobody minds, but I change the folders a bit for Anime/Manga (now I-R and S-Z).

GrigorII Since: Aug, 2011
#35396: Feb 11th 2015 at 8:01:08 AM

Soraya Montenegro, from María la del barrio.

At first, she was just a rich bitch, the girlfriend of Luis Fernando. But when Maria entered into the scene, she became more and more evil each day. She attempted to seduce him using the Nana Calixta's black magic. She staged a pregnancy to force him to get married with her. She tried to poison Maria, and treates her and all poor people with an absolute contempt (even her own mother), and kills her underlings without a second thought. Speaking of which, she shot her lover Osvaldo Treviño to prevent him from revealing their relation. Treviño manages to stay alive with his bulletproof vest, but when Soraya discovers that he's alive, she returned to shoot to him again. Then, she dies... or so it seems. She endures a 15 years recovery just ambitioning revenge, gets married with the rich man that healed her just to kill him and inherit his money, and return to Mexico. She abuses of the disabled Alicia and her elder godmother Esperanza, and physically attacks them on a regular basis, or torture them in creative ways (she even left Alicia alone in her room with tarantulas). She seduces an underaged boy and makes him drunk to nearly lethal levels, just for vengueance against his mother. When she discovers that Alicia and Nandito are lovers, she tried to kill them all (she stabed Nandito, Alicia ended up in the hospital, and Esperanza lost her memory for a long time). She kills her own mother (which she had seen and recognized living in the streets as a poor vagrant, and casually ignored), and forges evidence against nandito of that crime. She takes Luis Fernando when he's drunk to her house, to have sex with him (which may be very well considered rape). She reacted with glee when she reads in a newspaper that Maria died in a fire, and when she finds out that she did not, she tried to kill her with fire herself. Unlike other villains of the telenovela (such as Penélope or Carlota), she never had any repentance of her evil actions, except when trying to fool someone who is not completely informed about her.

edited 11th Feb '15 10:58:39 AM by GrigorII

Ultimate Secret Wars
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#35397: Feb 11th 2015 at 8:07:03 AM

[up]2 murders, 4 attempted murders, plus other stuff? I'll vote [tup].

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#35398: Feb 11th 2015 at 9:50:05 AM

I'm gonna give a [tup] to Soraya. Sounds like a real perra.

Here's one example I would have brought up during the summer, but was reluctant too. Vikram Desai from Twisted. The reason I'm reluctant was because the show was canceled before we could learn his exact motive, so for all we know he could've been a WIE.

Virkam is the father of the protagonist Danny, who before the series spent time in prison for his aunts murder when he was a kid. When he was released he was put in high school where Regina, the resident Lovable Alpha Bitch claims to know the truth behind Danny's aunt's murder, and she herself turns up murdered with Danny as the prime suspect. Over the years, Virkam was assumed to be dead, but the winter premire revealed he was not only alive, but was the one who really killed Danny's aunt (his own sister mind you). A flashback shows Kid!Danny walk into her house and saw his father strangle her to death with Danny's jump rope and coerced Danny to take the fall. It turns out during his fake death, Vikram had an affair with Regina's mother, and paid Regina hush money. When Regina was prepared to tell the truth, Vikram hired a crooked cop named Marilyn to kill Regina and plant obvious evidence on Danny. In the episode where it's all revealed, that cop gets arrested, and others involved in the cover up are questioned, but Danny and his friend Jo end up encountering Virkam when he arranges to meet them at a barn outside of town. Vikram tries to kill Jo, but a chase/fight between him and Danny ensues, resulting in Danny knocking Vikram off a cliff.

The reason I was reluctant to bring him up I because in the episodes following his death, the new villain Charlie was revealed some things of Virkam's past - apparently, Vikram was friends with Jo's mother and supported her during a teen pregnancy, helped her put the baby up for adoption, and to sever a paper trial, made it seem as if the baby died with its apparent adopted family. We later learn the baby, Charlie, was adopted by Virkam's sister. The final episode before the cancelation revealed the reason Vikram killed his sister was because a She Knows Too Much connection was unearthed, but the cancelation prevents it from being explored. LSS, I almost didn't bring him up because the show was canceled before we got a full understanding of him, but in the show proper we see no redeeming qualities or Freudian excuse - he's a lying, murdering sociopath who'd fake deaths and frame his son to cover things up, and that's all we actually see of him.

Thoughts ?

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#35399: Feb 11th 2015 at 10:48:45 AM

2 murders, 1 frameup, 1 attempted murder: seems to JUST be heinous enough. No redeeming qualities we see, so I'll lean [tup].

OccasionalExister Since: Jul, 2012
#35400: Feb 11th 2015 at 10:57:32 AM

I'm going with no on Vikram. That all sounds like pretty basic villainy.


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