During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Jakota. Strike Commando strikes me as one of those cheesy actions movies, but what 80's action film wasn't ? (Outside of Die Hard)
Muriel and Jakota
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
That's what made Expendables so cool. A throwback to the cheesy-awesome ultraviolent action flicks (also what makes Broforce kick so much ass.
Does anybody object to adding Marluxia from Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories? Let's start by pointing out that despite being The Starscream, he has no tolerance for his own traitors. He uses Vexen's fear of Xemnas to make him fight Sora, but it turns out he deliberately sent him to die after finding out he was delivering information to Zexion and Lexaus. He uses Namine as a human shield when Axel confronts him (and since it was before Axel bonded with Roxas, he was a lot more ruthless at the time). When Sora comes in, he throws Axel under the bus to save his own ass. Near the end, he orders the kind-hearted Namine to use her powers to basically kill Sora. When she refuses, he threatens to kill her instead. While Larxene was probably equally as cruel, her pitiful death makes me wonder if she truly qualifies. Marluxia, on the other hand, died without making the player pity him. It really says a lot when even Sora of all people is remorseless when he dies.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Well, the heinous standard is Xehanort, so there's that.
There's also Fallen Hero DiZ, who planned to have Namine killed the instant she stopped being useful just for being a Nobody.
And I haven't played KH3D but apparently one of its big reveals was every Organization member except possibly Braig/Xigbar was being jerked around by Xehanort, who planned to turn them all into clones of himself.
edited 24th Jan '15 3:52:39 PM by HamburgerTime
Sure, keep for Jakota.
Found this chunk under Joe Carrol's entry on The Following. How much of this is misuse, especially concerning Mandy?
- Even Evil Has Loved Ones: Despite being a sadistic narcissist who callously preys on psychologically unstable and/or weak-willed individuals, he seems to care for his wife and son in his own twisted way. He also appears to harbor an unusual affinity towards his archnemesis, Ryan Hardy.
- Flat out states in the Season 1 finale that when he saw Ryan it was Love at First Sight. When Ryan denies this Joe tells him, rightly, that he hasn't been paying attention.
- He shares a great bond with Emma as well, going as far as wanting to kill the Korban members holding him back after Emma had been mock-sacrificed.
- Later in Season 2, he is also visibly saddened by Mandy's death.
Alas, Poor Villain also has this bit concerning Pirates of the Caribbean's Cutler Buckett.
- Lord Cutler Beckett gets a scene where his ship and crew are blown to pieces around him and he shows no fear, only devastation over losing all his allies and friends all at once.
For the items remaining on the YMMV Sandbox, again, can anyone back up General Kazim (Sahara) or Christabella (Silent Hill movie) (and are all of Christabella's acts shown)? Also, since Romano and Harry Warden keep coming back as a "maybe, not sure", I think it's safe to cut them at this point. If no one objects, I'll do so in a few days. Since there was general agreement that the Nosferatu remake probably doesn't count, I've cut that one by now.
edited 24th Jan '15 4:09:00 PM by Morgenthaler
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
That's an... interesting interpretation of Beckett's death. I saw it as a bog-standard Villainous Breakdown myself. There's certainly not much indication he liked his subordinates all that much.
I still think Harry can qualify for massacring a hospital.
jjj
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Marluxia. He still has the other members of the Organization to compete for, as well as Xehanort himself. The revelation that he's ultimately just a pawn in the master plan does little to help with this.
to Muriel and Jakota. The latter seems like a bona fide walking stereotype if I've ever seen one.
Doesn't even like this username
for Jakota (and another movie added to my "to watch" list).
No more votes or opinions on Saints Row!Satan ? Tell you what, this will be my one and only argument in his favor before I drop it. I'll list the heinous standard of the games and let you decide among yourselves.
The first three games - The Saints gang and their rivals are about as heinous as you can get in a story with gangsters. They kill people, cause mayhem, and there's genral destruction. The main protagonist pretty much set that standard with his/her best friend Johnny Gat as the runner up. According to Gat Out of Hell, the protagonist caused more death, mayhem and destruction than any other human in history. Honestly both the protagonist and Johnny fit the Blood Knight department, as when they reunite in the fourth game, they make up for lost time by fighting and killing virtual enemies in a simulation. It was oddly heartwarming.
The fourth game - The Saints turn a new leaf, becoming the US government. With the Zin invasion, their main issue was the protection of the world and it's people, and later avenge the world. Zinyak a sociopathic alien emperor who invaded other worlds before Earth, and his MO in this game was abduct a majority of humanity, but them through a virtual reality of their personal hell, and destroys the earth to wipe out the rest of humanity out of spite. Zinyak doesn't count because it's been mentioned he loves his parents.
Satan in Gat Out of Hell is the ruler of the real hell and instigator of admin of eternal torture in Hell and is really gleeful about this. He threatened to murder his own daughter at one point and when called out on this he replies "I'll say something kind at her funeral". His ultimate goal was to lead an invasion on Heaven and get revenge on God. He also mentions in his audio recordings that God intended Hell to be a simple time out spot for the afterlife, but he twisted it into what it is today with his anger.
Now, it is worth noting Saints Row does have Black Comedy moments and lines, but the characters and story are played strait. Think Bride of Chucky or the second half of the Nightmare on Elm Street series and you'll get what I'm getting at.
edited 24th Jan '15 5:21:07 PM by Beast
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Famke Jannsen needs a better agent. for Muriel, though.
Satan.
He sounds bad enough, yea to Satan.
Morgen: For Joe Carroll, I did bring up the things for his wife and son...he definitely doesn't really love them as people, but as story tropes. He is more than willing to kill Clare and set up her death while molding his son into his successor. His obsession with Ryan is "Oh, perfect nemesis" and it's shown he doesn't really care much for Emma. As for Mandy, he sums it up best himself: 'She was MINE!
That is also a ridiculous interpretation of Beckett's end. He goes into a BSOD not because his 'friends' are dying but because he's losing
To
edited 24th Jan '15 5:46:02 PM by randomtroper89
Doesn't even like this username
for Satan (writing that feels weird) from me too.
There were some shots of Beckett's men being blown up while sad music plays, but I'm not sure that means Beckett was feeling sad for them, necessarily.
Given Beckett's previous attitude toward his men bordered on remembering he had them only when he needed them for something...
I agree that Beckett's Villainous Breakdown being over the fate of his men is an extremely odd interpretation.
Just a question. If we have Simone from Buffy the Vampire Slayer on both Monster.Comic Books and Monster.Live Action TV why don't we have Stu Cobbler from Veronica Mars on both Monster.Live Action TV and Monster.Film
edited 24th Jan '15 7:10:16 PM by randomtroper89
I definitely agree about Beckett not caring for his men. He is a CM through and through.
Also, I have seen American Sniper and there is no doubt in my mind now that the Butcher is a Complete Monster. I will try to make an effort-post on him soon.
I will say to Muriel, Satan and Jakota.
I have question, there is a movie I remember from my childhood, called The Peanut Butter Solution, which had a pretty silly concept, but in terms of execution has a fair amount Nightmare Fuel. I would have to watch the movie again, but can a movie with a pretty silly premise, but somewhat scary execution have a CM in it?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Good point. I just requested it now. Possibly. Depends on how serious the villain is. ![[nja]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/user_ninja_2074.png "[nja]"){kind=small}
Just saw the wiki page. WTF???
edited 24th Jan '15 11:08:19 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Because people don't always die instantly?