During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
How's this?
- Batman: Assault on Arkham: The Joker, who commits most of his Arkham Verse crimes in the games, here plans to use a dirty bomb against Gotham City.
edited 22nd Jan '15 7:56:49 AM by ACW
Not bad, it's not like it needs expansion because this the Arkhamverse Joker.
Anymore opinions on Stefan ? I personally am begining to lean to
but I'm still going to give a quick list of his crimes to see if they meet the baseline. I get the main argument against him is that he's more paranoid than evil, and his novelisation counterpart is more evil, just need to see your opinions on the matter.
- Maiming his former friend to become king.
- Plotting years of killing the protagonist to the point it eats away at his sanity.
- Ignores his wife's deathbed whilst having a "conversation" with Maleficent's severed wings.
- Constantly sends soldiers to attack Maleficent's fortress. When the survivors return, he's more concerned with their failure.
- When finally reunited with his daughter, he can't be bothered to show her any affection, simply having her locked up - when she enters the sleeping curse, and he's told true loves kiss will break it, he replies there is no such thing as true love, and only belittles the fairy's who raised Aurora for their failure and incompetence, which gave me the impression he sees her as a possession.
You know, once I get this settled, I'm taking a proposal break - the winter break of TV Land is over, and the characters on my future proposal list are still being explored - that an I think it was said to wait for two weeks before proposing a recently released video game example.
edited 21st Jan '15 2:05:51 PM by Beast
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
to Stefan, both movie and the novelization. As for Dan, while most of his acts are played for parody, so is every antagonist in the series. Nothing really stands out as serious. As for how much of a Villain Protagonist he is, does flooding a country, attempting to sacrifice your best friend, sending flaming logs into his neighbor's home (because they were nice to him, no less), and trying to destroy the world for incredibly petty reasons (that is Dan's shtick) sound very pleasant?
edited 21st Jan '15 2:29:01 PM by Scraggle
Geeze, if played seriously it'd seem like he could actually count, as we've had a few Villain Protagonists count before (Griffin and Bill come to mind).
Hell no to Dan. He's an asshole, sure, but the show plays everything for laughs. Plus he's shown on many occasions to be a Jerkass Woobie. Besides, Timmy Turner from Fairly Odd Parents has done similar things (blowing up planets for instance) and he's just an Unsympathetic Comedy Protagonist with a reasonable Freudian Excuse. If we counted Dan, we might as well count Homer Simpson, Mr Burns, Sideshow Bob, or hell any UCP.
If there are no objections, I'll do a write-up on One Eye.
I've decided to try and take my hand at writing a pony Complete Monster known as Unknown/The Elder for an RP I'm running on a different site. Elder's crimes include murdering Princess Celestia in cold blood and taking her place, transforming the mane six into crystals (think the l'Cie from FFXIII), electric torturing the Cutie Mark Crusaders, nuking Manehatten and Cloudsdale with the Elements of Harmony drained from the mane six (thankfully a few survived) and sucking the life force out of Ponyville to become stronger. He is played completely seriously, and shows no remorse or regret for his crimes. Nor does he have a Freudian Excuse.
Thoughts?
Anyone have any issues with adding the Fairy Tail examples?
Beast: I'm sorry I never answered. I can't remember any redeeming qualities of Wynn whatsoever.
Here's my new Dragovich
- Nikita Dragovich is a sociopath who creates the 'numbers' program that brainwashes captive American soldiers into sleeper agents to kill their own people. Dragovich first demonstrated his untrustworthy and callous nature at Stlaingrad, when he deserted his own men and left them to be butchered by the German forces. After the war, Dragovich would lead a project to recover the biochemical Novaa 6 weapon. To test its effectiveness, Dragovich and his right hand man Krevchenko used it on Russian soldiers. Dragovich would later become one of the Soviet Union's most powerful members, where he would capture hero Alex Mason and brainwash him into becoming a presidential assassin. Even worse, Dragovich planned to use his sleeper agents to release Nova 6 on the whole of the United States.
Now that the season's over, I'd like to bring up Dandy Mott from American Horror Story: Freak Show. Honestly, I think the only thing that could potentially keep him from qualifying would be his supposed love for the twins. However, it isn't entirely clear exactly how genuine his love for them is. Sometimes he seems genuine, but other times, it just seems as though he sees them as another of his possessions, or as a sort of novelty. There's one scene in an episode where they don't do as he wants them to do, and he responds by throwing a tantrum, calling one of them a bitch, and storming off. This seems to me less like he loves them and more like a child "loving" a toy. The "love" only applies when the toy performs as it is expected to. I have more on this, but I'll save that until others have had a chance to speak.
edited 21st Jan '15 8:48:42 PM by Pwnisher248
Methinks Stanley is even worse than Dandy. And he doesn't have the "madness-born-of-genetics" excuse Dandy did. He's just a greedy sociopath.
It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane.Oh, I definitely vote
for Stanley. He was greedy, manipulative, completely amoral & had a sadistic streak (his taunting of Dell and his daydreams of killing the freaks).
Hell, Dandy even had one tiny moment of sympathy with his desert speech. Stanley had none.
Not so sure about Dandy, though. His unhealthy upbringing & love for the twins aside, didn't he also mention that he felt bad when he was hearing Andy's note dying pleas?
It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane.Not exactly. Dandy got over that quick and grew to enjoy killing people. Redeeming qualities don't count if you abandon them. He just grows to believe he's God and everyone about is there for his amusement.
Dandy killed way more people than Stanley. He was a torturer, murderer, and causes the largest bodycount in series. At the very end, he has shed any redeeming qualities he had.
edited 21st Jan '15 9:15:34 PM by Lightysnake
I wasn't proposing Dan- he's a Jerkass Woobie extraordinaire. I was listing out his crimes so people know that he's the most heinous character in the show in spite of his redeeming qualities- aside from that, no character in Dan Vs counts, as every action is played for laughs and no one really breaches the heinous standard, again, scratch Dan himself.
Here's my Dandy writeup. I can make changes based on suggestions. I'm working on one for Stanley now:
- American Horror Story: Freak Show: Dandy Mott is a wealthy young man, and a self-styled "bringer of death." ridiculously spoiled by his socialite mother, Dandy exhibited signs of sociopathy even in childhood. He is heavily implied to have caused the disappearance of another boy. In adulthood, he has become bored with his lavish lifestyle. This is alleviated when he makes friends with Twisty, a murderous Monster Clown. Dandy delights in torturing the children Twisty has captured, and attempts to stab them with a knife. After Twisty is killed on Halloween, Dandy takes his mask and begins a killing spree of his own. One of his victims is his own mother, whom he coldly shoots in the head. He then bathes in her blood and turns her corpse into a giant marionette. He declares himself a god and proceeds to have his childhood friend murdered when she goes to the police about the disappearance of her mother (who was Dandy's first victim). After he buys the freak show from Elsa, the freaks walk out on their contracts when he mistreats them. He responds to this by calmly strolling around their campgrounds and shooting them dead as he sees them.Though he claims to identify with the freaks, Dandy's actions reveal that he's just a spoiled toddler in an adult man's body who believes that everyone and everything exists to entertain him.
edited 21st Jan '15 10:06:30 PM by Pwnisher248

I'll hopefully work on Julia this weekend. Also, I took care of Assault on Arkham you-know-who (I just added a sentence fragment to the current entry). Should anything be added to DC Animation or just keep it in the VG section?