During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I'll say yes on Julio. Given that Fukuda's connected to the series, I'm not surprised either. The man already gave us Azrael and Djibril.
No on Ammut
EDIT: Regarding those fanfic examples, we can safely cut Phil Watson methinks. According to that entry he's a Domestic Abuser in a comic book full of psychopaths and murderers. Looking at the page, Jack O'Lantern seems like a yes, but I can't speak to the other one.
edited 7th Jan '15 8:14:40 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar
@ Camberf, I edited the sandbox to note that it's the version from the Reharmonised timeline. It seems Randomtrooper cut Angry Pie from the sandbox. So, the only thing left is to decide on Kabuto. So far, everyone seems to have sustained. Well, we will come to a conclusion eventually.
edited 7th Jan '15 8:26:06 PM by bobg
jjjHaving had the misfortune of reading DAYD (it's nowhere near as good as its fandom thinks and has a lot of misogyny). I think I can agree with the cutting of Prof. Belsen; he's one of those characters who's hyped up as a CM but it isn't really shown. The worst thing he does is torture a student in an unspecified way.
If no one is sure about voting on Kabuto for now, we can wait until the final arc of the series ends. We can decide if Discord still qualifies by the end and befre locking up the series for good, do a final vote and tally for Kabuto. On the bright side, we have cleared up a lot of other issues with that series.
PS. Camberf, I think you have gotten enough votes for Applelox to due a write up for him.
jjjNot familiar with the work, but cut Phil Watson, but at worse he sounds like a douche.
Cut Martin as he's overshadowed by the fics big bad.
Jack the Ripper doesn't have much context.
edited 8th Jan '15 5:55:06 AM by Beast
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."@ Camberf: No real issues with keeping Applelox. I'll lean to cutting the other Ask a Pony entries until someone can propose them here.
@ bobg: I'll second nrjxll's assessment on Pony POV; keep unredeemed!Discord (for now), Pegasus Despot, and Makarov, burn the rest. Good rewrites on Discord and Makarov, just specify that it's a specific version for the former.
Speaking of which, pretty much every entry on that Pony subpage is a spoiler-tagging eyesore. If no one objects I'll strip the spoiler font from that sandbox (given that this is the standard for subpages, being Spoilered Rotten) to facilitate clean-up.
for Julio as of now. Reaffirming
for Ammut.
@ Scraggle: Good work finding those. Alright, first impressions:
Nobility: Cut Didier. The work page gives me the impression that it's mostly Offstage Villainy.
Tamers Forever: Cut fake Gennai for ZCE. I'm leaning to axe the other two as well. Nightmare was at least programmed to be what he is, his creators just didn't expect their attempt to create an evil computer virus to have Gone Horribly Right (I'll refer to SID 6.7 there). Not sure about Daemon. He's a literal monster, but can he help what he is?
Ultimate Sleepwalker: Keep Fever Pitch, he apparently tries to kill everyone on Long Island with a nuclear meltdown. Cut Psyko, he was transformed against his will. Cut Cobweb for failing the bar next to Fever Pitch. A case can be made for Jack if we took relative power into account, but let someone suggest it here.
Ultimate Spider Woman: Yeah, cut Philip. Keep Firebrand, he's a mass-murdering Pyromaniac. Not sure on Jack O'Lantern... he's about on the same level as Firebrand (city-wide murder, ripping the throats out of bystanders...), but the Sanity Slippage entry makes it sound like he's just clinically insane at some point.
Ace Combat: Cut, not heinous enough.
Dumbledore's Army: Seconding Hamburger Time, cut Belsen for Offstage Villainy.
Works without articles: Cut, none of them sound heinous enough.
Fortitude: I'd be inclined to cut him. The only thing that sticks out is planning to "break" Zelda, and that seems to be implied more than anything. Aside from that, killing the hero to get his girlfriend and whipping a maid is too lightweight. He just seems like a slightly nastier Gaston.
Sacred and Profane: Cut. Completely vague if he's even done anything heinous, and just being creepy (whatever that means to a group of demons) is not a qualifier. On top of that the work page (which is a ZCE mess) calls him a Well-Intentioned Extremist, Affably Evil, and a Sociopathic Hero.
Imperfect Metamorphosis: Cut, he's a mental avatar of the angel Azrael. No idea about him, but I don't think he appears onscreen.
edited 8th Jan '15 6:34:58 AM by Morgenthaler
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"Also going to
Belsen. On account of apparentl offscreen villainy and lack of context.
Not sure about Zirah, but giving him a
.
Going to take the time to do a summuration of The Annihilator of Disney Channel's Mighty Med. The show focuses on two genre savvy teenagers, Oliver and Kaz who learn that comic book superheroes exist, and end up working at a hospital that treats them, and sometimes getting into situations way over their heads. Before you ask, no there are no Marvel Superheroes featured here, but there are lawyer friendly rip offs (even though Disney does own Marvel).
Who is the Annihilator ? What does he do ?
The Annihilator is the series Knight of Cerebus, he is the Bigger Bad of the first season and Big Bad of season 2. He's a supervillain, and the arch enemy of Oliver's superheroine love interest Skylar Storm, who's powers he stole prior to the series. The Annihilator is a supervillian who's MO is stealing the powers of superheroes, storing them in a device that taints their powers, and he'd give their powers back, which corrupts him into his servats. His ultimate goal is to use his army of corrupted superheroes to destroy the world. Now even if he doesn't corrupt them, the superheroes and left vulnerable to being attacked by their enemies, which is established when one superhero is shown to be near death after loosing his powers. Prior to his introduction was sending Skylar's corrupted friend Experion to abduct him. Now that's pretty generic on itself, but his next appearance, Skylar is revealed to be dying and needs her powers to survive but Oliver and Kaz break into the Annihilator's lair to steal back Skylar's powers, nearly getting killed by the Annihilator, but when Skylar gets her powers back, the Annihilator reveals he already tainted her powers and corrupted her, making Skylar into his dragon in his destroy the world scheme. In his last appearance, Oliver and Kaz learn about the Annihilator's origins from his old superhero mentor, Hapax the Elder on the planet Caldera. In his last appearance, the Annihilator attempts to kill his former mentor, before being attacked by Skylar, who decided to pull a starscream on him for his lack of ambition - he wanted to destroy the world, despite having the power to take over the universe. Later on, after Skylar's corrupted powers are removed, defecting her back to the good side, the Annihilator sneaks up and fires a dose of venom into her, before getting his life force drained by Hapax, killing him.
Redeeming Qualities or a Freudian Excuse ? He isn't shown to have redeeming qualities, and while he is the Knight of Cerebus of the series, he does have some funny moments, but they don't distract from his actions or the threat he poses which is played strait. He has one onscreen kill count, plus the Ascended Fridge Horror that leaves superheroes powerless against their enemies, and his ultimate goal was to destroy the world, making his attempted body count being, well, the world. He does have a Freudian Excuse, but I'm not sure it sticks - his origin story was that he was once a boy named Neil Gunderhausen, who had powers due to a mutation, but was ostracized by the community. He met his superhero mentor Haypax, who took him under his wing in hopes that Neil would become a hero himself, but Neil was effected by his experiences, defecting into being a supervillain. His reason for wanting to destroy the world was to make everyone suffer like he did. He is an adult by the time the series takes place, so whatever sympathetic kid he was is long gone. It should be noted that back story aside, the show doesn't try to play him sympatheticly.
edited 8th Jan '15 7:17:43 AM by Beast
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."I also think that we should cut the character from the Good Omens fanfic, it only lists one crime.
I'll write-up Appelox later today.
I'd like to nominate Alfred Drevis, the father from... um, Mad Father.
Who is he? What has he done?
He is the father of the main protagonist, Aya, and a Mad Scientist extraodinaire. All the enemies and monsters in the game are the result of his experiments, most of them controlled by the vengeful spirits of his victims. Many of his victims were innocent children. He led them to his home with the promise of goodwill and shelter. He murdered his wife when she found out what he was going to do with their daughter, lying to Aya that she had died of an illness. He kept his mistress Maria alive just to use her as an assistant, and almost kills her in two of the game’s three endings for failing to capture Aya. His ultimate goal is to turn his daughter into a doll to prevent her from being “dirtied”.
Is he heinous by the standards of the story?
He’s pretty much the only real villain. Every other antagonist is either too insane to have moral agency or has a noble agenda. And even if that weren’t the case, his bodycount far exceeds anyone else in the game.
Any Freudian Excuse? Any redeeming qualities?
The closest thing he has to an FE is that when he was a child, he liked killing animals and hiding their bodies. On one occasion his mother found out and scolded him, so he killed her in anger. He found his mother’s dead face “pretty” (after wiping the blood from her face). He ran away from home after, scared about what would happen to him. But he had become addicted to the “beauty” of death. Yeah. Not really valid. As for mitigating factors, this is where things become a little muddy. His diary indicates that he does indeed love his daughter, considering her his greatest treasure. He may honestly believe that turning her into a doll is for her own good. Of course, it may not actually be “love”, but rather a possessive sort of obsession. We have a few of those on the page. Another potential complication is that in another part of his diary, Alfred notes how Aya is taking after him in regards to animal killing and experimentation. He doesn’t want her to follow in his path because he doesn’t want her to become “dirtied”. Now, the question here is: Does he regret his crimes? Nowhere else does he express any remorse for his actions, and he only wants to prevent Aya from committing these crimes to prevent her being corrupted. We do have C Ms who consider themselves evil, but just don’t care. Oh, and his relationship with Maria? Only using her. He doesn’t care about her and is perfectly happy to try and kill her when she disappoints him.
Conclusion
Most of what I’ve written comes from memory and the wiki, so I may have forgotten something. Were it not for his two potentially redeeming qualities, I’d say he were an easy qualifier. Indeed, I tend to flip-flop on whether or not he counts, but at the moment, I say he does.
As for the Annihilator... I'll abstain from voting. He sounds really bad, but... I dunno, I'd probably have to watch the show to see just how bad he is. Maybe my standards are too high?
edited 8th Jan '15 9:02:26 AM by PolarPhantom
Wanting to destroy the world seems heinous enough. His Freudian Excuse doesn't disqualify him IMO (hell, someone even tried to help him). Seems like one of those examples where it seems like he shouldn't count, but there's nothing to disqualify him.
Any of you guys read Jack Reacher books? Several villains in the series appear highly qualified to be CM.
I'll (HOPEFULLY
) do the writeups THIS weekend.
BTW, was it me, or was TV Tropes screwy a few minutes ago?
Alright, so I've organized post 34037
and left notes for the judgments. Any other opinions on any of the listed candidates would be appreciated, but I think Phillip, Zirah, Brynn, Belson, and for now, Jack, are clear cuts.
edited 8th Jan '15 1:05:54 PM by Scraggle

What does Hans Belsen do? There isn't any context to explain what he does. All it says is that he's a stand end for Josef Mengel. There's also no context for the fake Gennai in Tamers Forever, and the Nightmare sounds like a GDV.
edited 7th Jan '15 8:04:45 PM by AustinDR