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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#324676: Sep 23rd 2022 at 6:51:54 AM

Hell, I'll do the same. I'm interested in the old spy stuff. Agreed on cutting for the moment.

WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#324677: Sep 23rd 2022 at 6:58:43 AM

Has The Avengers had a look into? I'm tempted to give that one a watch.

But yh I'm fine with cutting Randolph

Edited by WetFlannels on Sep 23rd 2022 at 3:00:03 PM

Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#324678: Sep 23rd 2022 at 7:12:33 AM

Oh, that is one of them. I was meaning to in honor of Diana Rigg, happy to have you aboard there!

therealjackieboy Ultimate Moral Compass from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Ultimate Moral Compass
#324679: Sep 23rd 2022 at 7:12:55 AM

While I also can’t comment on Riggs, I can definitely say [tup] for Maxie and a Cut for Randolph

"No running in the halls!"
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#324680: Sep 23rd 2022 at 7:16:53 AM

Yes to Riggs, and I'm calling the next troper script.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Ravok RIP Toriyama Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
RIP Toriyama
#324681: Sep 23rd 2022 at 7:18:56 AM

Yes to Maxie and of course a big one to Riggs, great work again on the script, Jack! Also highly approve of the Bee rewrite!

I don't know if I ever proposed this one but what do we think of this video for the trope in the form of Cobra Commander:

Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#324682: Sep 23rd 2022 at 7:28:49 AM

Don't know if YOU did, but somebody did; it's already in the videos [lol]

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
papyru30 The wifi here sucks from South Dakota for school Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
The wifi here sucks
#324683: Sep 23rd 2022 at 7:32:02 AM

Yes to Maxie, Riggs, and the Queen Bee rewrite

Tbh after the whole Dodgson thing I'm going to be more skeptical of rewrite proposals. That being said, I'm a no to the Kuro rewrite, the original's fine and personally I don't think length really needs to corelate with prominence in this situation, dude's got more individual crimes than Hody even if Hody is worse overall.

Edited by papyru30 on Sep 23rd 2022 at 8:56:52 AM

Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#324684: Sep 23rd 2022 at 7:37:11 AM

Can I ask a question. I know for The Death of Stalin, Beria is up from the comic its based on La mort de Staline. What about Stalin himself from their?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Ravok RIP Toriyama Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
RIP Toriyama
#324685: Sep 23rd 2022 at 7:41:00 AM

@ACW: Huh, must have done it then [lol] Thanks for the info lmao

Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
G-Editor Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#324687: Sep 23rd 2022 at 9:44:34 AM

[tup] to Maxie and Riggs; Cut Ruldoph

Okay here are my write-ups along with a new Metro tree (by order of impact and appearances) and some re-writes on the current ones.

  • Metro series:
    • Last Light:
      • General Czeslav Korbut is the brains behind the Red Line, a neo-Stalinist army that aims to conquer the Metro. Manipulating his superior Maxim Moskvin into poisoning the latter's own brother and political rival, Andrey, Korbut blackmails Moskvin with this information to obtain more control over the Red Line than him. Korbut would also test a deadly bioweapon on the peaceful station of Oktyabrskaya before attacking D6 to eliminate the Rangers and obtain more samples of the deadly virus, seeking to repeat the destruction of Oktyabrskaya with the entire Metro just to rule over what remains.
      • The unnamed Führer is the leader of the Fourth Reich, a Neo-Nazi dictatorship dedicated to the extermination of those The Führer deems racially and genetically “impure”. Those whom the Nazis don’t instantly kill are sent to one of The Führer’s concentration camps where the prisoners are tortured and worked to death with a failsafe unleashing toxic gases that would kill all the prisoners should even one is seen escaping. When Artyom and Pavel attempt to escape one of these camps, they see The Führer announces his plans to attack D6.
      • Lesnitsky is Korbut’s mole within the Spartan Rangers where he discovers and retrieves a deadly virus for Korbut. On Korbut’s behalf, Lesnitsky unleashes this bioweapon on Oktyabrskaya while personally killing anyone who may have survived the virus's reach. Lesnitsky also attacks a church prior, killing more people and kidnapping Anna, who he later uses as a Human Shield against her lover Artyom.
    • Exodus:
      • The Doctor is the leader of the people living in the Ark of Yamantau, where he convinced them not to leave the bunker to search for survivors and trade food with in favor of becoming cannibals, where he lures unsuspecting men, women and children to the Ark for them group to kill and eat already claiming countless victims as seen by the many corpses, disembodied limbs, and flayed skin throughout the bunker. The Doctor also plans to torture Anna to death to force Artyom to lure the rest of the Aurora crew to the Ark for his cannibals to devour.
      • The Baron is the leader of Munai-bailer where he has enslaved the people regional to the barren Caspian Sea and rules over them through cruelty and manipulation. The Baron would subject these people to horrid working and living conditions where countless have already died as a result while creating a fake religion to brainwash them into accepting their roles a slaves, with some even becoming canon fodder for The Baron to use against his enemies. The Baron would then order his soldiers to kill everyone onboard the Aurora train, threatening them with death if they fail, before luring Artyom, Giul, and Damir into his hideout for him to kill.
      • Sam’s Story DLC: Klim is the unhinged enforcer of Tom’s gang, abusing his position to exert his brutality throughout Vladivostok; examples of this include hanging a group of bandits he killed in public, and slaughtering an innocent crew with only The Captain surviving, while Klim has mutants captured to plans to use them against his enemies. Klim would then betray Tom unleashing his army of bandits and mutants onto Tom and his allies, before commandeering Tom’s submarine where Klim attempts to launch the nuclear missile inside to kill millions throughout the world.

Edited by G-Editor on Sep 23rd 2022 at 2:19:13 PM

TellAll111 Since: Jun, 2010
#324688: Sep 23rd 2022 at 9:59:50 AM

[tup] for Garner, Devereaux, Brand, the Mad Giant, Patricia, Nagumo, Albert, the Fuhrer, Lesnitsky, Belzeus, the Coachman, the Headmistress, Klim, the Baron, Troman, Ima, Maxie, and Riggs.

[tdown] for the Pianist, Darcy, and Reramos.

Cut Partridge, and Randolph.

Happy birthday, Crow.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#324689: Sep 23rd 2022 at 10:00:30 AM

Wonder if anyone counts in the books. The games are based on?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
G-Editor Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#324690: Sep 23rd 2022 at 10:05:00 AM

@mir: I don’t think anyone has covered the Metro books yet so there may be candidates there. hopefully someone will eventually get to them (whether it may be me or another fan of the series) since the games were inspired by the books

[down] no one counts in the first game. The main antagonistic force are mutants who have the same moral agency as wild animals

Edited by G-Editor on Sep 23rd 2022 at 1:15:53 PM

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#324692: Sep 23rd 2022 at 10:17:11 AM

[tup] for Carson Riggs.

Yes, it is September 23rd. Yes, I am aware it has been two weeks since it has been two weeks since BROK the InvestiGator came out. Lots of shit has happened since then. Namely me spending a week trying to find time to play the game and going through various choices to get the canon ending, and me spending this current week coming down with a sinus infection I'm still suffering from. But I finally got the canon ending to the game, so I can finally talk about shiz and things!

Except no.

Nobody counts. :D

The only candidate is Wes, who is revealed to be a robot who had the memories of the real Wes planted inside of him after the real Wes died (it's a fat-ass story I'm not going to try and get into). But despite wanting to commit genocide by killing all the Slumers (since they commit so much crime), he does have some kind of point behind what he's doing. Even if this makes him hypocritical, he still loves his nephew, Ott, despite knowing Wes' actual uncle died and he's just carrying on a facade of him.

So yeah...this is what the two-week wait amounted to.

The game's fantastic though. Y'all absolutely should get it if you love adventure games (especially ones where your choices do matter and affect what ending you get).

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#324693: Sep 23rd 2022 at 10:42:32 AM

[tup] Carson Riggs.

I waited a few hours to post this since I wanted to spare ACW of having to deal with another EP in a morning full of E Ps, but now I believe it's time to begin the discussion for the final season of Meta Runner:

What's the Work?:

Meta Runner is an 2019-2022 web animated series made by Glitch Productions, the same people who brought you SMG 4, Sunset Paradise, and Murder Drones, and is set in an futuristic world where gaming is everything. The series stars an Meta Runner named Tari as she searches for answers about her past while helping her friends take down Derek Lucks and his company, TA Scorp. Unknown to her, however, an certain scientist has been secretly using her for his own sinister goals. A scientist by the name of… Dr. James Sheridan.

Who is Dr. James Sheridan? What does he do?:

Dr. Sheridan was once an scientist at TA Scorp who created the Meta Runner arms that Meta Runners use to boost their performances in gaming, only for his boss, Derek Lucks, to steal credit for creating the arm, resulting in him getting the fame and recognition instead. Furious by this, Sheridan developed a hatred for Lucks and decided to work on another project called Project Blue, an A.I., meant to beat any game that she plays, hoping to use this to revolutionize the gaming industry for sake of satisfying his bruised ego, as well as to avoid being fired by Lucks. Only problem was he needed a Meta Runner to download the A.I. into, which is solved by a Meta Runner named, Lucinia Porter, who volunteered cause she wanted to help out. After downloading the A.I. into her Meta Runner arm, Sheridan then proceeded to perform incredibly dangerous experiments on Lucinia with the A.I. in the hopes on completing it. It goes well at first, until Sheridan decided to download a more advanced version of the A.I., named Tari, into Lucinia's arms. This ends up causing an explosion that shatters Lucinia's mind, with some of the fragments ending up in Tari, while Sheridan is scarred. They were both presumed dead.

Afterwards, Sheridan decides to use this as an opportunity to get revenge on Lucks and gain his own fame and recognition. Creating an artificial body for Tari, removing her memories in the process, Sheridan secretly uses her for the sole purpose of taking out Lucks. Eventually, with the help of her friends from MD-5, Tari is able to expose to Lucks to the world, but Sheridan, knowing none of them will kill Lucks, controls Masa's Meta Runner with a Meta Bug that he placed during the show match earlier, and forces him to kill Lucks, framing Masa for the crime in the process. Tari, Theo, Lamar, and Sofia are picked up by Marco, while Masa and Belle are apprehended by the authorities. With Lucks dead, Sheridan puts the next phase of his plan into action, before proceeding to call Evelyn and offers to give her Tari's abilities in exchange for her getting revenge on Tari, to which she accepts. He also kidnaps Masa and Belle with the intent on forcing them to be apart of his Meta Runner team promoting his new company, SHE Rcorp, before performing the same dangerous experiments he did on Lucinia on all three of them to give them Tari's game warping abilities, uncaring for their safety. He also created a A.I. version of Lucks, who he constantly abuses out of hatred for the real Lucks, and for the sake of his own amusement.

Sheridan then has Evelyn kidnap Tari and warp her to his personal server, where he plans to kill her by taking out Lucinia'a fragments through a very painful surgery, having no further need of her, and then give them back to Lucinia with the intent on forcing her to be a part of his team as well. Fortunately, Tari is saved by Theo, who was also warped into the server, and the two managed to escape. Sheridan then sends Evelyn after them, giving her an knife that will kill Tari and extract her fragments. Tari and Theo managed to flee to a video game called, Skybreakers, but not before Evelyn manages to slash her with the knife that extracts some of the fragments from Tari, causing her to lose her Meta Runner vision in the process. Luckily, she survives due to not losing all of the fragments. Meanwhile, Sheridan uses the fragments that Evelyn managed to acquire to restore Lucinia, but she is left in a mindless state due to not having all of her fragments, to Sheridan's Lack of Empathy as he uses that to easily control her, before forcing Masa and Belle to fight against her, much to their horror. Afterwards, Sheridan proceeds to brainwash Masa and Belle into becoming his minions via Mind Rape. We don't see how he does so with Belle, but her screams means that it's far from pleasant, but we DO see how he does it with Masa, and it's pretty horrifying. Basically, it involves Sheridan sadistically torturing Masa by forcing him to relieve his traumatic memories of killing Lucks, as well as his guilt for his mistakes, with Sheridan cruelly using his virtual versions of his friends demonizing him just to torment him even more, eventually forcing him to allow Sheridan to painfully brainwash him.

Afterwards, Sheridan begins the final phase of his plan involving his newest creation, Global Warp Technology, testing this by having Evelyn use it to send countless Meta Runners, including Lamar, to Sheridan's server during her chase for Tari. Deciding to test his technology further, he forces the captured Meta Runners to fight and kill each other over and over again, and since they're actually in the server, they feel the pain of EVERY death, to Sheridan's lack of concern. Oh, and Sheridan punishes any Meta Runner that refuses to participate by brutally torturing them by twisting their limbs Vecna style. Satisfied with the results, he sends the brainwashed Masa and Belle to help Evelyn kill Tari, before proceeding to use the technology to send EVERY SINGLE Meta Runner in the world into his server, planning to use this technology to gain fame as the man who changed the world, uncaring of the fact that his technology is slowly killing the Meta Runners trapped in his server. Fortunately, Tari is able to defeat Evelyn, regain her Meta Runner vision, and free Masa from the brainwashing, who manages to knock both Sheridan and himself out by blowing up his Meta Runner arm, freeing Belle and allowing Tari to enter the server with Lucinia in pursuit.

Sheridan wakes up not too long after this and attempts to kill Masa, but is quickly informed that Tari has entered the server, forcing him to focus on stopping her from ruining his plans instead. Tari fights the brainwashed Lucinia, with Sheridan attempting to assist in killing Tari by giving Lucinia more powers. Tari and Sofia call out Sheridan for his actions, pointing that his actions will end up killing many innocent people, but Sheridan ignores this, making it clear that he's willing to let many people die in order to win and satisfy his own ego, viewing everyone as brainless idiots. When Sofia states that Sheridan that Tari wants to help others and not satisfy Sheridan's ego, he decides to have Tari outright killed instead, just so Lucinia will never be fully restored out of spite. Tari ultimately manages to defeat Lucinia and hook her up to the machine that will fully restore her with the remaining fragments, but Sheridan freezes her and prepares to lock Sofia out of his server as he celebrates his victory… Fortunately, Sofia had already tracked his lair down with her tracer program, which Marco uses to locate him, easily overpowering him. Sheridan angrily declares that no one will destroy his work ever again, only for Marco to respond to this by placing several of the Meta Bugs on him, before tossing the mad scientist into his own server, electrocuting him to death and destroying the server in the process, freeing the Meta Runners and putting a end to his ambitions for good.

Heinous Standard:

If you thought Lucks was heinous, Sheridan manages to be even worse. While Lucks was already bad with his major crime of putting Theo, a child, into a incredibly painful version of his game, where he is clearly suffering, Sheridan gets even more vile crimes such as taking advantage of Lucinia's mindless to control her and forcing her to fight against her friends, cruelly torturing Masa to force him to allow him to brainwash him, forcing Meta Runners to fight and kill each other, threatening to painfully torture them if they don't participate, and is perfectly to let them all die just so he can win and satisfy his own ego. Yeah, he has no problem here. Of course, his rap sheet does mean we might have to cut Lucks, but whether or not his most heinous crime of what he did to Theo could allow him to stay is something I will let you guys decide, but I won't be too upset if we end up cutting Lucks.

Migrating Factors:

None here either. Sheridan is definitely one insane individual, but it was never once implied to give him any moral agency issues, and his insanity functions just like Joker's, meaning that he still has clear agency, especially since he is clearly capable of thinking and planning his sinister schemes, and takes sadistic pleasure in his own actions, especially when he torments Masa. His hatred of Lucks stems from him taking credit for creating the Meta Runner arm, but this doesn't just justify his actions at all, especially since he's mainly upset about not gaining recognition for his work to satisfy his ego and further proving that he was always an ego fueled mad men even before the accident, and even if he had redeeming qualities back then, he had long since shed them in his desire for revenge and to gain fame for his work. He is also perfectly willing to kill his own creation, Tari, when she outlived her usefulness to him. And while he was intending to fully restore Lucinia, it was mainly so he can force her to be apart of his team, and was willing to leave her in a mindless state permanently by killing Tari just to spite Sofia. He claims he wants to help people, but his actions clearly prove otherwise since he was not only forcing them to kill each other repeatedly, but was perfectly willing to let them die just to win. He even admits that he's doing all of this to make the world recognize his genius, proving that he's nothing more an egotistical monster that is willing to cross any line to satisfy his massive ego.

Conclusion:

Easy keeper, and I let you all decide if Lucks should be cut or not.

Ordeaux26 Professor Gigachad from Canada Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Professor Gigachad
#324694: Sep 23rd 2022 at 10:54:49 AM

[tup] Sheridan.

And yeah with this I am going to have to personally advocate cutting Lucks, he is awful, but I was already not really in favor of him counting and Sheridan is so much viler than Lucks comes across as incredibly small potatoes in comparison. There also isn't any resource gap between the two to make up for this as Lucks was the CEO of a powerful corporation.

What he did to Theo is bad but I don't think that is enough to save him.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Sep 23rd 2022 at 10:55:52 AM

CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
CaptainPinkiePie from Equestria with love Since: Mar, 2019 Relationship Status: Brony
#324695: Sep 23rd 2022 at 11:00:40 AM

[tup] Sheridan. First for Anthony "Antfish" Sardinha?

Cut Lucks. While it does hurt a bit since I liked having him on this trope, I agree Sheridan's worse.

Captain Pinkie Pie! Nah, just Pinkie Pie.
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#324696: Sep 23rd 2022 at 11:24:13 AM

Any way to trim that? It's over 1800 words.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
G-Editor Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Ordeaux26 Professor Gigachad from Canada Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Professor Gigachad
#324698: Sep 23rd 2022 at 11:25:55 AM

I don't really think it is needed, 1800 isn't that long.

EDIT: Reworded it to sound less controlling, apologies.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Sep 23rd 2022 at 1:14:14 AM

CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#324700: Sep 23rd 2022 at 11:29:09 AM

@ACW That was the best I could do honestly. On the plus side, at least it ain't over 2,000 words this time.


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