During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Coachman
Thank you so much, guys! ![]()
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A small update: Nobody counts in the second season of American Horror Stories—the worst villains are a serial-killing couple, a misogynistic Sinister Minister and a beauty-obsessed Religion of Evil, pretty tame when compared to some of the other baddies. With that out of the way, I'd like to propose my second The Expanse candidate.
Who is she? A very minor character from the Origins prequel comic book, the unnamed headmistress of Baltimore's Home For Children is the Predecessor Villain of Amos Burton's POV issue. Having several innocent Earthern orphans under her "care", the headmistress forces the children to prostitute themselves for her favorite clients, sadistic pedophiles who come to her looking for a place where they can find new victims. In her only appearance, the headmistress is shown giving Burton's best friend, Saru, to one of her clients, non-chalantly saying that she will "need him back by morning".
When Burton sees Saru again in the next day, the boy is in a catatonic state, repeteadly banging his head against the wall; he eventually commits suicide by overdosing on pills as a desperate attempt to get away from the torture that the headmistress is perpetuating. Following Saru's death, Burton manages to escape and finds the pedophile who raped his best friend, pushing the bastard in front of a moving train. Unfortunately, the headmistress herself is implied to have escaped Burton's wrath, one of the most disgusting villains in the history of The Expanse is a Karma Houdini.
Mitigating Qualities? Absolutely none, her appearance is incredibly brief but the issue makes it clear that she is the one who personally ruined Burton's childhood.
Heinous? Bruh... Even in the dark and cruel universe of The Expanse, this wicked and heartless woman passes with flying colors. Providing innocent children to rapists and pedophiles is an automatic "yes" IMHO, no matter the setting.
Conclusion?
Yee but sorry your birthday had to bring you a Karma Houdini lol
to the Coachman and Headmistress
Okay here’s my final candidate from the Metro series appearing in Metro Exodus so let us talk about it.
What’s The Work?
Metro Exodus is the 3rd installment in the Metro video game series taking place a year after the Last Light. The premise is that Artyom decides to leave the Moscow Metro and sets off on a continent-spanning journey with his allies to the far east, on a locomotive called the “Aurora" to find a place on the surface world that they can call home, eventually finding one in Lake Baikal.
Of course my candidate appears in the DLC content Sam’s Story which takes place after the main story where Artyom’s comrade and sole American of the Spartan Order, Samuel "Sam" Taylor, part ways with his friends, deciding to find a way to return to his home in San Diego to see if his father survived the nuclear war. Sam eventually arrives in the port city of Vladivostok and among the people that he encounters, none are as evil as this man, Klim.
Who Is He? What Has He Done?
Klim is the Big Bad of "Sam's Story" who serves as an enforcer of Tom’s gang who takes advantage of that role to inflict his brutality on people in Vladivostok killing any who displeases him with two cases showcasing his brutally by killing a group of bandits before hanging their corpses for everyone to see, culling the surviving bandits to join Klim out of fear, and later slaughtering the Captain’s entire crew, with only The Captain surviving Klim’s massacre.
Klim is also revealed to be capturing mutants and so that he could use them to kill his enemies, with the implication that he had already unleashed them on people, while coercing bandits to join his secret army that Klim plans to use against Tom to overthrow so that he can officially rule over Vladivostok and take over Tom’s nuclear submarine, USS Mayflower, for himself to use.
When Sam and The Captain deliver the fuel needed to power Tom’s nuclear submarine, Klim stages his coup against Tom, unleashing his army of bandits and mutants to kill Sam, The Captain, and Tom while taking over the USS Mayflower and planning to launch the nuclear missiles to kill millions in the world with exclaiming that he already has a few cities he intends to target.
Before Klim could launch the nuclear missiles, Sam arrives and battles Klim where Klim tries to kill Sam. Luckily Sam is able to turn the tables against Klim and kill the bastard, ending his genocidal scheme before deciding whether to use the submarine to travel to San Diego or destroy the sub so no one can use the weapons it has, whether choice Sam makes is entirely up to the player.
Freudian Excuse? Redeeming Qualities?
Nothing, Klim was a violent thug before he joined Tom’s gang where after becoming Tom’s enforcer exerts his monstrosity by killing to anyone he encounters even threatening his own subordinates with the same brutality whose brutality shocks Tom to the point that he wants to get rid of Klim only for the latter to betray Tom so Klam can use the nuclear missile just because he can. It’s a pretty simple explanation for Klim.
Heinousness
With what Klim has to work with, he definitely stand outs slaughtering countless people wherever he goes, whether they be bandits whom Klim hangs in public, the Captain’s people whom Klim has massacred, capturing mutants to use against his enemies, which he actually does, unleashing them on Sam and his allies.
That’s not even getting to Klim’s betrayal of Tom just can take over his submarine to launch the nuclear missiles against his enemies or just because, already having a few cities that he plans to bomb and given the revelation that the world of Metro is still highly populated even in the post-apocalypse (albeit still at war with each other) Klim would have succeeded in killing millions hadn’t Sam not stopped him.
Don’t worry The Doctor still counts given how unique his crimes are (cannibalism is very rare), but Klim having quite possibly the highest attempted body count along with his other atrocities and brutal nature in general, definitely allows Klim to stand out in this series in my opinion.
Final Verdict
I’ll leave it to you guys.
Edited by G-Editor on Sep 22nd 2022 at 3:42:50 PM
My sandbox of EPs and other stuffYes to the Coachman, the Expanse baddies, and indeed a happy Birthday to you, Crow!
Snagging the just-announced, untitled Vince Gilligan show along with STAR!
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!- The Expanse:
- Season 2: Staz is a bloodthristy OPA thug who progresses from being a lowly militiaman to a radical terrorist when given the resources to threaten Earth itself. Frustated at the moderate politics of Fred Johnson, Staz stages a violent coup to depose him of power and tries to launch 150 thermonuclear missiles against Earth to kill as many people as possible. By letting thousands of Belters die when the UN decides to destroy Tycho Station in retaliation, Staz hopes to ignite a bloody revolution that will consume all Inners in fire.
- Origins prequel: The unnamed headmistress of Baltimore's Home For Children is a cold-hearted woman who turns her orphanage into a brothel for pedophiles, perpetuating rape and forcing the innocent orphans under her care into prostitution—her only "rule" being returning the children by morning. So bad are the lives of the orphans that one of them, the best friend of Amos Burton, ultimately commits suicide to escape the torment.
Pending stuff, minus Hardy Boys and my own (I'll write Jonah up for this week's batch):
- Kuo-Ho-Tchan
(Silverblade)
- Giu Xian
(STARCRUSHER)
- Pinocchio (2022, Disney): Coachman (Clown-Face)
- Metro: Last Light: Fuhrer; Lesnitsky (G-Editor)
- Metro Exodus: Klim (G-Editor)
- Inside No. 9 (harrietvanger)
- Tokyo Shinobi Squad: Hyosui Nagumo (Jackie)
- Among the Shadows (2019): Patricia Sherman (Lighty)
- Terminal Velocity (1994): Pinkwater & Kerr (Lighty)
- Ruins: Warden Wilson Fisk (Ravok)
Too bad Expanse has only 6; with Lit, TV. and now the comic, it'd be ideal for a page.
Heh, posted right after
. The Headmistress is going to the comics page; where should Staz go in the tree? I'm thinking before Nguyen; Staz debuted an episode later, but has a smaller role it seems.
Edited by ACW on Sep 22nd 2022 at 4:55:38 AM
I feel like the novels should have more considering how many their are.
Les dents du tigre Part 1 and 2: Minister Kuo-Ho-Tchan, nicknamed "The Clown of Beijing", is actually the true ruler of the Asiate Empire who seeks no less than world dommination under his dictatorial regime. Kuo-Ho-Tchan secretly builds a lair through the labour of slaves in preparation of next operation: sending nuclear missiles on multiple capitals and industrial centers of Europe and America. He also imprisonned a large amounts of western prisonners and had them brainwashed in order to compel them into framing other nations. When Bob Morane and Frank Reeves accidentally trespass in his base, he has Bob bloodily whipped for interogation treatening worse torture. After they escape, Tchan hires Roman Orgonetz who bombs the place they hide while also sending assassins after Frank's wife and daughter. Successfully nuking dozen of cities from Russia and Siberia and kickstarting World War III, Tchan is eventually shot dead but it is then revealed that he enacted a wicked plan to drown a quarter of humanity by creating algae that melt the icebergs in Antarctica.
I'd suggest to put Kuo-Ho-Tchan between Xhatan and Evaristos at Bob Morane. Technically, Tchan predates Xhatan but the latter is a recurring villain. Roman Orgonetz- should he count- will take the first spot as he's Morane's oldest foe andthe second most recuring villain (after the Yellow Shadow).

He’s fine for a second entry. Yes to the Coachman.