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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#324151: Sep 17th 2022 at 2:47:54 PM

I’m inclined to vouch for a split but what does he have for crimes in the sequel? “I was in a state of confusion” is pretty weak for villainy and there are… a couple attempted murders otherwise? This isn’t one I can advocate for just adding without fully assessing through proper EP.

Ansongc2000 Pensive Wright from Serenity Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Hit me with your best shot
Pensive Wright
#324152: Sep 17th 2022 at 2:55:16 PM

[up] His worst crime in the sequel, assuming we call everything related to the conspiracy Fridge Horror, is killing the couple in the intro after assuring the husband he wouldn't.

That said, brainwashing the women, while not described as torture, not is the mass rape ever brought up, is taken dead-seriously by the story, and the women evidently hated it enough to lynch Coba as soon as they were free.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#324153: Sep 17th 2022 at 2:56:18 PM

Sure to the Morane candidate and Ganondorf.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#324154: Sep 17th 2022 at 2:56:21 PM

I'm back. Guys.

Uh is sequel /reboot Diz even heinous enough? I though he's a generic bad guy their.

Edit: [tup]Bob morane guy.

Edited by miraculous on Sep 17th 2022 at 2:56:42 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#324156: Sep 17th 2022 at 3:06:43 PM

Hmm guys I am not exactly sure that we can dismiss the canon of the this film. Maybe normally but the film from what I am reading was intended to be a follow up to the film adaptation and it also had direct involvement from Edgar J. Scherick who was involved with the first film.

The direct involvement of someone working on the film is the same reason why we cut Waringo for being outclassed by a villain that showed up in a sequel novel. This film also only came out five years later after the film adaptation.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Sep 17th 2022 at 3:08:54 AM

ClownPrince47 Since: Sep, 2016
#324157: Sep 17th 2022 at 4:05:06 PM

[tup] to Ganondorf and a maybe for Jacques. Honestly, I don't know if his heinousness matches others, especially when it comes from being a greedy Control Freak and not active malice, but if he has enough deeds to count, I won't argue.

Speaking of Rooster Teeth, I've got a quote suggestion from Red vs. Blue:

"You just couldn't do it, could you? You couldn't just lay down and die! Well, if I'm going down, I'm taking you all with me."
[...]
"Do you really believe you can escape this? Surely you've realized it by now. You may save the colonists, you may even save the Freelancers, but you and your friends will not be leaving this ship."
Malcolm Hargrove deciding to murder the population of Chorus out of spite, Red vs. Blue, "The End"

Edited by ClownPrince47 on Sep 17th 2022 at 7:45:21 AM

Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#324158: Sep 17th 2022 at 5:03:48 PM

Aren't those 2 different quotes? Have we done stuff like fusing 2 quotes together before?

Bow to the Prototype
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
ClownPrince47 Since: Sep, 2016
#324160: Sep 17th 2022 at 5:12:42 PM

[up][up] If they need to be separated, that's fine. But I felt like they were pretty related in terms of subject. I thought the first one was a bit longer, but I realized it wasn't that long. So, I added the second part.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#324161: Sep 17th 2022 at 5:13:24 PM

He sounds pretty generic and this means nothing for his novel counterpart either way and given his minimal rapsheet in the film I don't see why anything beyond the first film (which just faithfully adapts the book) needs to be added unless I'm missing something.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#324162: Sep 17th 2022 at 5:16:31 PM

I just noticed something weird, the pages only has his film counterpart listed, has his novel version never been proposed or does he not count for some reason?

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Sep 17th 2022 at 5:19:35 AM

Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#324163: Sep 17th 2022 at 5:20:42 PM

How was Edgar J. Scherick 'involved' exactly? Heat 2 was the movies straight up director making a book designed to be a straight sequel.

Bow to the Prototype
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#324164: Sep 17th 2022 at 5:25:39 PM

I agree with Snoke's stance on the quote as well.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#324166: Sep 17th 2022 at 5:32:43 PM

My issue is much more to the point that if the sequel is deemed to just have him committing generic villainy, then it doesn't matter if it's canon or not because there's nothing to add to his entry.

Btw Snow is the working title for the upcoming Game of Thrones sequel I've already called and I'm announcing now that I'm sharing it with Lighty.

Edited by 43110 on Sep 17th 2022 at 9:00:09 AM

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#324167: Sep 17th 2022 at 6:07:23 PM

Likewise announcing myself and Lighty are gonna collab on Mission: Impossible – Dead Reckoning Part One and Two!

Edited by Ravok on Sep 17th 2022 at 6:07:40 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#324168: Sep 17th 2022 at 6:09:01 PM

lemme say this real quick:

Stepford Wives is based clearl yon a book by Ira Levin, and the robot thing is direct, it's not remotely ambiguous. A DTV sequel doesn't overrule that.

Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#324169: Sep 17th 2022 at 6:14:54 PM

Inclined to agree

Bow to the Prototype
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#324170: Sep 17th 2022 at 6:33:36 PM

I would agree as well. I wasn't trying to say that I was more saying that these movies would need to be taken into account if they have stuff worth adding. But I guess there is nothing needed to. And honestly it doesn't even sound like their is a Retcon going on, it seems to me they could have simply stopped using the Kill and Replace method rather than never using it to begin with.

WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#324171: Sep 17th 2022 at 6:37:28 PM

[tup] Ganon, Kuo

Hope you enjoyed the wedding Mir!

Got another writeup of mine I wanna tweak, Sophia Leigh.

Original

  • Sophia Leigh is the head of SLinc and a woman obsessed with her vanity. Obtaining the Eye of Isis in Victorian times, Sophia would hire people to work for her, only to have them cruelly experimented on, eventually leaving them rotting and immortal, then dumping them into the sewers under London. Sophia would then use any successful results to apply to herself to keep herself young-looking and immortal. Sophia returns in The Lost Artifact, having stolen the Hand of Rathmore and used its properties to mutate people in an underwater facility.

Rewrite

  • Sophia Leigh is a obsessively vain woman who had obtained the Eye of Isis in Victorian times. To remain immortal and youthful over the years, Sophia would hire homeless people to work for her, later subjecting them to cruel experiments. The aftermath of the experiments would leave them immortal but decaying in which Sophia would then dump them into the sewers of London and keep the best results for herself. Seemingly killed off, Sophia returns in The Lost Artefact where she steals the Hand of Rathmore and uses it highly volatile properties to experiment on people in an underwater facility

Thoughts?

Also speaking of Tomb Raider rewrites would anyone object to me having a crack at this one? It's a bit oddly structured.

  • Jonathan Reiss is a brilliant scientist and Nobel Prize laureate who makes a living designing and selling biological and chemical weapons to wealthy criminals from around the world. When he learns of the existence of Pandora's Box and the plague it carries, he sells the disease to his clients under the pretence that it's merely a highly potent bioweapon, but in reality it will spread across the world, killing anyone without access to the antidote he plans to create and provide only to the wealthiest and most powerful. In his quest to find Pandora's Box Reiss is merciless, even threatening to have a man's children infected with a deadly disease if he doesn't cooperate, and even as he dies he makes one last attempt to grab the Box.

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#324172: Sep 17th 2022 at 6:41:41 PM

Also, Scrags and I are gonna watch John Carter of Mars cause why not? Stay tuned!

Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#324173: Sep 17th 2022 at 6:43:56 PM

Have fun!

Bow to the Prototype
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#324175: Sep 17th 2022 at 8:59:06 PM

[tup] Kuo-Ho-Tchan

It's Spooky Month!

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