During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Wallallu Qarwinchu.
Quick question: I’m writing a fanfic, and one of the characters might have the potential to be a CM by the time it’s done. Do I just ask someone here to follow it, or do I wait until I finish the fic, or what?
Check out my current fanfiction project.Yes to The End, Adrian, Wilf, Jasper Keaton, Myca, MCP, Baron Von Strucker, Xian, and Wallallu Qarwinchi.
It has been almost 3 weeks since the end of the fourth season of the podcast Marvel's Wastelanders. The main villain is Red Skull and even though it's a podcast for adults set in a world where supervillains take over, this Red Skull seems rather tame. He does bad things and has no redeeming values, but he could be nastier considering he is the ruler of a portion of the US.
I actually do not think the heinous standard is that high in this series. Brandon Best is a CM, but he is some guy who got lucky and took Doom's resources. In season 2, Baron Zemo is another dictator ruling over a portion of the US, but he actually died before the series started and his son has been secretly taking his place, the only kinda nasty villain is Ringmaster, who kills Blob's son and sells superpowered drugs, he sells superpowered drugs to a teen named Max who accidentally blows up the high school they are attending, so Ringmaster's biggest crime is an accident. The villains in season 3 are confusing, that season is a mess, it's mainly AIM trying to mind control people to rebel against the Red Skull so they can take over. I am not sure what I should do with this Red Skull.
Edited by Overlord on Sep 11th 2022 at 9:13:57 AM
I’m not writing a CM just to write a CM. I’m writing a CM to keep a character who was a CM in the original work in character.
I’ll wait to send anyone my work until it’s closer to being done.
Quarinchi.
Edited by Critica7 on Sep 11th 2022 at 12:47:52 PM
Check out my current fanfiction project.- Percival Pickens is a centuries-old Satanist sorcerer from the Rivervale universe hellbent on ruling the town with enslaved ghosts. Transported to the Riverdale universe, Percival begins corrupting the townsfolk, even going back in time to make it a place of racist hatred. When defied by the heroes, Percival summons Biblical plagues, culminating in killing many of Riverdale's firstborns, and when finally damned to hell, spitefully sets Bailey's Comet to destroy the town.
- Eobard Thawne, aka the Reverse-Flash, is the Arch-Enemy of Barry Allen. One night, Thawne fails to kill Barry as a child, instead killing Barry's mother in order to cripple Barry's spirit so he could never become the Flash. Thawne finds himself Trapped in the Past without his Super-Speed, leading him to Kill and Replace Harrison Wells, recreate the STAR Labs Particle Accelerator explosion earlier to recreate the Flash, while also filling Central City with dangerous meta-humans. Prevented from returning to the future, Thawne tried to kill the heroes, but is supposedly erased from existence after his ancestor, Eddie Thawne, kills himself. Somehow surviving, Thawne resurfaces, traveling to Earth-X and joining the ranks of the New Reichsmen; assisting in the Nazi invasion of Earth-1, fleeing when the tides turn. Eventually, Thawne would end up incarcerated in the future and scheduled for execution; he manipulated Barry's daughter, Nora West-Allen, into destroying Cicada's dagger—which kept Thawne's powers negated—in the past, knowing it would also erase Nora from existence. Post-Crisis, Thawne returns again, having lost his body, and takes over the body of Nash Wells, trapping his mind, while attempting to murder Team Flash. After Thawne's body is restored, Thawne creates "Reverse-Flashpoint", where he has stolen Barry's life and identity in every way, and has set to erase Barry from existence, which Barry warns him would lead to "Armageddon". Made into the Avatar of the Negative Forces, Thawne uses his newfound powers to go on a killing spree for kicks. Unable to best Barry after he becomes the Positive Force Avatar, Thawne decides the best way to kill his nemesis is to take the entire world down with him.
- Twelve Worlds - A Disney Princess Fanfiction (link
): The mysterious Eldritch Abomination known simply as "The End" is a being who seeks nothing else than the destruction of every single realm to expand its power. The End resurrects a slew of fallen Disney Villains to sow chaos and destruction within each realm, allowing its power to grow stronger and stronger as the fear of the realms grows. The End takes the form of Dr. Facilier and attempts to tempt Alex into the dark side by goading him into killing "Facilier".
- Lim-Dûl was once a lowly soldier on Dominaria who became empowered by evils greater than himself to become the greatest threat of the Ice Age. First gifted magic by finding the ring of Mairsil the Pretender, Lim-Dûl was gifted the power of necromancy by Leshrac to raise an undead army to conquer the plane of Shandalar. Destroying much of human civilization at the end of the Ice Age, Lim-Dûl was eventually defeated by Mairsil's old rival Jodah and punished severely by Leshrac for losing his undead host. When his master was cast out of Shandalar, Lim-Dûl took to his newfound freedom by beginning his own conquest of the plane and proceeded to wipe out all life except in one last city. Ultimately defeated and sealed away on Shandalar, a piece of his soul left in Mairsil's Ring would become the enigmatic Raven Man, who tormented Planeswalker Lilian Vess for centuries.
- Sound of the Sky: Colonel Hopkins, "the Demon of Vingt", is a bona fide war criminal and the one truly evil character in an otherwise fairly optimistic story about wartime. Years ago, Hopkins manipulated one of the heroines into unleashing an ancient weapon against his enemies in the Roman Empire, resulting in entire cities being destroyed and thousands of lives being lost. No less of a War Hawk in the modern day, Hopkins repeatedly attempts to prolong the war between the Romans and his own state, eventually threatening to wipe out the town of Seize as a last resort.
- Dragon Ball Z, by Luis Filipe (link
): Frieza, like in canon, is the tyrant in charge of the Galactic Frieza Army. Out of fear that the Saiyan race would one day produce a warrior strong enough to overthrow him, Frieza leads an assault on their homeworld, before obliterating it himself. Wanting to use the Dragon Balls to become immortal, Frieza holds a Namekian village hostage to get information out of them, then travels to Earth and has his army destroy an entire city. Seemingly defeated by Goku and friends, Frieza catches them by surprise by killing Krillin and, after being bested by Goku one last time, attempts to destroy the planet out of spite.
- Untitled series by JudasFm
: In the past, Raker the Jackal had killed his father and drove his mother to suicide before abusing his brother, whom he would later name Bait. Raker would lead a gang responsible for numerous crimes, such as blowing up houses and selling Tails into slavery. During Caves of the Ancients
, Sonic, Knuckles, and Bait head to the Scrap Brain Zone to save Tails, so Raker goes after them and ends up blowing up Oil Ocean Zone, killing thousands of people in the process. In the next fic, Sins of the Mothers
, he teams up with Knuckles's thought-to-be-dead mother and Dr. Robotnik, in hopes of getting Bait back, just so that he can torture and kill him.
- Bullet Train: "The Hornet" is a particularly vicious assassin who lacks the standards her contemporaries hold. Specializing in "Boomslang Venom", which agonizingly kills people as they bleed from their orifices, Hornet is shown to target a doctor; a Cartel wedding, indiscriminately murdering Cartel members and their family members, including "the Wolf's" innocent wife; and kills a train hostess to steal her uniform. Confronting "Ladybug", Hornet is smugly delighted at the thought of poisoning him, taunting him all the while.
- The United States of Monsters series, by publication date:
- Eldritch Ops: Vlad Dracula is the most powerful vampire in history and is single-handedly responsible for converting them into the most dangerous species on Earth. Having already been a dangerous pirate in his human life, Dracula immediately began consolidating his power upon his transformation into a vampire. Dracula began mesmerizing every vampire that was sired, creating the Vampire Nation; massacred his daughter's entire family in revenge for her leaving his side; raises humans from birth to be addicted to blood, leaving them his mindless slaves; trafficks humans to the Vampire Nation and moves slaves on six continents; and intends to destroy the House so he can Rape, Pillage, and Burn across the world. With the crimes of every vampire ultimately happening because of him, Dracula lives up to every terrifying legend that has ever been spread in his name.
- The Bright Falls Mysteries: Marcus O'Henry is the Ulfric of the werewolves and directly responsible for all the evil that has occurred in Bright Falls. Coming into power by killing his father, Marcus began abusing the rest of his family, even forming a lynch mob when his sister married a Native American; this mob killed his sister and her children, and when the Red Wolf then massacred the mob in response, Marcus left them all to die. Across his horrible reign, Marcus raped any shifter he wanted, producing children with many of them; massacred the Drake clan, including civilians; kidnapped Yolanda's son and raised him as a wolf before sending him to die; and eventually led his own granddaughter to the Wolf, getting her killed. After being arrested, Marcus backs Dr. John Winston Jones's genocidal plans from behind the scenes, and at the height of his depravity, sells out his entire people to the Red Sky just for a shot at returning to power.
- The Sandman (2022):
- The Corinthian is a nightmare who glories in his dark nature. Helping to keep Dream of the Endless imprisoned without any care of the horrific effect on the world, the Corinthian also enables John Dee in his potentially global plots to destroy the minds of countless others as long as he kills Dream. A sadistic Serial Killer, the Corinthian murders many young men, torturing them and eating their eyes. Arriving at a serial killer convention, the Corinthian plots to lure Dream into a fight with the Dream Vortex Rose Walker to destroy him and inspire countless serial killers to more horrible acts.
- "Calliope": Erasmus Fry is an elderly author who became world-renowned through the vilest means imaginable. Having bound the magical muse Calliope to his will many decades ago, Erasmus used Calliope to inspire himself with creativity by regularly raping and abusing her, trapping her as his slave for over 50 years. Erasmus kept Calliope hopeful for release through all the years, yet when he grows tired of her presence, Erasmus sells her off to Richard Madoc and encourages Madoc to continue raping and dehumanizing Calliope, and Erasmus personally mocks her for having ever believed he would let her go.
- Death's Head II: Both incarnations of Baron Wolfgang von Strucker V, aka Charnel, are equally monstrous.
- The Wild Hunt miniseries & 1992 series issues #11-12: Baron Wolfgang von Strucker V is the descendant of the original Baron Strucker seeking to destroy A.I.M. in the year 2020 and conquer the world. After becoming the being known as Charnel, Strucker murders the mechanic who helped him and went out causing a massacre at A.I.M. headquarters. Afterwards, he goes back in time, causing a dark future where he reduces the world to an apocalyptic wasteland; murders numerous heroes; and reduces Reed Richards to mere putty. When the heroes went back in the past to stop this, Charnel murdered most of them while gleefully gloating how he'll reshape the world in his image. After his first defeat by Death's Head II, Strucker comes back to life to resume his plans, completely incinerating one of Death's Head's allies alive in the process.
- Death³: Charnel rules the timeline where he succeeds in conquering the world, killing billions of people while reducing the Earth into a hellish wasteland where humanity is nearly extinct. Under his rule, Charnel sends monsters to kill innocents such as women and children en masse, crucifying them in his name. Charnel murders dozens of rebels led by his timeline's Anthony "Tony" Stark. Charnel decides to abandon his timeline to be erased; plans to go back in the past to reduce the other timeline's Earth to the same condition of his world, which would kill billions more; before going on to conquer the universe and spread his horrible rule.
- ANNO: Mutationem: Amok is a being from the Hinterland who lives to sadistically slaughter all in her path. Convincing a young Ann Flores to act as her covenant for her eventual reawakening, Amok hopes to be freed from her domain so that she can destroy every human on Earth. Should Ann not side with Dr. G, Amok takes advantage of Ann's despair over her brother Ryan's death to allow her to possess her, laying waste to all of Skopp City before initiating Earth's destruction.
- Midnight Maid Night: Jeremiah Vermander is the former head of the corrupt Vermander family. Known for being a very cruel and selfish man, Jeremiah tended to burn his servants alive if they prepared a bad meal for him. When the blizzard hit the city and his newspaper couldn't be delivered to him, Jeremiah sent his faithful servant, Cornelius, outside to go get it, not even allowing him to wear a winter coat, which resulted in Cornelius freezing to death. Discovering that his son, Joseph, entered a relationship with a "commoner", Jeremiah brutally murdered her and shoved her corpse beneath the floors in the mansion. When Joseph started to help the poor after his death, Jeremiah come back as a ghost and murdered him, resulting in the ghosts of his son, his son's lover, and Cornelius ghosts to be unable to rest, and haunt the mansion. When the Midnight Maids come to clean his mansion for the new owner, Jeremiah tried to hunt them down.
- Agents of Mayhem:
- The Morningstar is the mysterious leader of L.E.G.I.O.N and mastermind behind their atrocities. When L.E.G.I.O.N uncovers the power of Dark Matter, the Morningstar decides to go public with "Devil's Night", an event in which L.E.G.I.O.N's armies had entire cities wiped out across the globe, with an estimated millions left dead, and multiple governments toppled. The Morningstar secretly conspires with his underling Dr. Babylon to harness more Dark Matter that would grant the Morningstar godhood; his ultimate goal is to wipe out the world and remake it in his own image. When Persephone Brimstone defects and topples Morningstar's plans, L.E.G.I.O.N has Paris destroyed by her husband to punish her. Setting up Babylon's operations in Seoul, The Morningstar threatens him with execution for his failure, a promise he ultimately makes good on.
- Dr. Babylon, real name Dr. Osman Timur, is the ruthless and ambitious head of the Ministry of Pride within L.E.G.I.O.N.. In charge of mastering Dark Matter for L.E.G.I.O.N.'s weapons, Babylon takes part in their numerous attacks, at one point mixing Dark Matter with a weaponized virus that was loosed onto India, infecting and killing countless innocents, with children and babies seen among his victims. When Babylon learns that one of his scientists is also working with the Ministry of Greed, Babylon kills said scientist and enslaves his daughter Ariadne with a microchip that drives her insane. Babylon seeks to extract a giant Dark Matter crystal for its power, and sends his lieutenants to distract M.A.Y.H.E.M. from his operations. With his plans finally ready, Babylon launches the attack on the city and on M.A.Y.H.E.M.'s Ark, and when he gets his hands on the crystal, Babylon goes on a final rampage to destroy and rewrite reality in his own image.
- Kindred: The Embraced:
- Eddie Fiori, the Brujah Primogen of San Francisco, is Prince Julian Luna's arch-nemesis for most of the show. A callous and power-hungry mobster, Fiori seeks to overthrow Luna by orchestrating a war between the clans, starting by executing the Gangrel Primogen and ordering a drive-by shooting against a crowded Toreador club. A Bad Boss to his own clan, Fiori is happy to throw his right-hand man under the bus and use the Brujah as Cannon Fodder in the war that he wants to ignite.
- "Romeo and Juliet": The unnamed Ventrue pediatrician is the cruel head doctor of a children's hospital. Feeding exclusively on his own patients, he turns the hospital into his personal blood-farm, keeping the sickly children malnourished and in constant fear of him. When Prince Julian Luna—who tries to give a fair trial to every vampire—learns the extent of the horrible conditions at the hospital, he immediately sentences the doctor to Final Death.
- Inca Mythology:
- Huarochiri Manuscript
: Wallallu Qarwinchu—God of Fire—is the Arch-Enemy of the benevolent Pariacaca and the former ruler god of Huarochiri, in where he installed a reign of terror where local woman were forced to have only two children and to sacrifice one of them to him to devour their flesh and drink their blood. Continuing this abominable tradition until the arrival and victory of Pariacaca, Wallallu would be exiled to other lands, in where he would continue trying to kill Pariacaca and his family in failed attempts to recover his old power.
- Huarochiri Manuscript
Opinions ACW?
Fun fact about the myth. His Evil Land is actually described to be a place full of life...and that's bad because the result is a proto-Malthusian nightmare where everyone is struggling to survive.
Kinda fascinating to have a story where The Hero is the Ice Powers guy.
Edited by KazuyaProta on Sep 11th 2022 at 12:56:28 PM
Watch me destroying my countryYes to Wallallu but...
Distinction Without a Difference... if you're writing a version of a character to keep them a CM as they are in source material then you are inevitably writing a character to be a CM. If the character fits, gets EP'd and upvoted then cool, I'll probably stay out of it myself because as a whole it's an attitude we discourage but I think this needs to be said for the knowledge and understanding piece for the OP.
I made that Magic change.
Let's do a group: Native American Mythology
- Inca Mythology's Huarochiri Manuscript
: Wallallu Qarwinchu—God of Fire—is the Arch-Enemy of the benevolent Pariacaca and the former ruler god of Huarochiri, where he installed a reign of terror during which local woman were forced to have only two children and to sacrifice one of them to him so he could devour their flesh and drink their blood. Continuing this abominable tradition until the arrival and victory of Pariacaca, Wallallu would be exiled to other lands, where he would continue trying to kill Pariacaca and his family in failed attempts to recover his old power.
- Mayan Mythology: Chak Ek is the god of the planet Venus who severely resents his brother Kinich Ahau for being brighter and more glorious than him. Chak Ek vents his jealousy by murdering many gods, including K'awiil, his own brother Kinich, Hun Hunahpu, Ak Na'ak, and a fertility god sent by the Hero Twins, all resulting in mass death, starvation, warfare, and social unrest among the people. The gods always return to life, but the hateful Chak Ek repeats all these atrocities, locking all divinities in an endless cycle of repairing the damage caused by these murders just to sate Chak Ek's envy and spite.
Edited by ACW on Sep 11th 2022 at 2:52:17 PM
Based on the EP,
to Wallallu.
I don't think there's anything wrong with actively writing a character to be a CM. I think as long as it still contributes to a creative work process, it should be fine. Make the story work with it in a way that doesn't feel intrusive.
For example, how I've written—or will write—characters in my own work is irrelevant. Other Tropers decide via EP and voting whether or not anyone is not only worth it, but whether or not anyone counts. There's a reason Tropers can't vote on characters from their own works after all—because what they were going for can influence voting and muddy the waters.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Sep 11th 2022 at 1:02:28 AM
Wait ~ACW isn't it time to lock the Incrediable Hulk page, it is completed and now it doesn't even have 7 entries.
