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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#323576: Sep 9th 2022 at 8:00:08 PM

It was decided last time that his last confrontation with his creator Flynn were just a bit too tragic last time, even if he is insanely bad

[nja]

@Ravok

Thanks!

Edited by Snoketrope on Sep 9th 2022 at 8:00:51 AM

Bow to the Prototype
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#323577: Sep 9th 2022 at 8:01:37 PM

A Jeff Bridges CM? Well that's just like... your opinion man [lol] Yes!

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Luigigalaxy Since: May, 2022
#323582: Sep 9th 2022 at 8:09:32 PM

[tup] to the mcp, interesting I didn’t expect him.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#323583: Sep 9th 2022 at 8:11:27 PM

Fun fact: Corey Burton imitated Warner's MCP voice while playing Shockwave in Transformers, and then used the same voice when cast in Kingdom Hearts II as... the MCP. [lol]

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#323585: Sep 9th 2022 at 8:21:37 PM

[tup] to the MCP

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#323586: Sep 9th 2022 at 9:28:58 PM

Based on the EP, [tup] to MCP. Always makes you wonder who's gonna find their way back here again at some point or another, doesn't it?

I'm not sure who could count for Jeff Bridges then since Clu has that Alas, Poor Villain and Stane is not as overtly nasty as was originally perceived.

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#323587: Sep 9th 2022 at 11:28:17 PM

Yes to MCP.

I have a quick addition to add to a current Magic: The Gathering entry due to a huge reveal that happened recently. I'm going to keep the expansion short for right now until the rest of his story plays out. The added part will be in bold.

  • Lim-Dûl was once a lowly soldier on Dominaria who became empowered by evils greater than himself to become the greatest threat of the Ice Age. First gifted magic by finding the ring of Mairsil the Pretender, Lim-Dûl was gifted the power of necromancy by Leshrac to raise an undead army to conquer the plane of Shandalar. Destroying much of human civilization at the end of the Ice Age, Lim-Dûl was eventually defeated by Mairsil's old rival Jodah and punished severely by Leshrac for losing his undead host. When his master was cast out of Shandalar, Lim-Dûl took to his newfound freedom by beginning his own conquest of the plane and proceeded to wipe out all life except in one last city. Ultimately defeated and sealed away on Shandalar, a piece of his soul left in Mairsil's Ring would become the enigmatic Raven Man who tormented Planeswalker Lilian Vess for centuries.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#323588: Sep 9th 2022 at 11:42:32 PM

Major thanks for Scraggle for suggesting this evil sonofabitch and for helping me on this. Here I got a version of Baron Strucker... sort of, he's a descendent of the Nazi Nobleman who now goes by the name of Charnel from the year 2020 who appears in Death's Head II: The Wild Hunt as the main antagonist, returns in Death's Head II (1992) Vol 2 and his alternative future counterpart being the main antagonist of Comic Book/Death³ both of whom I'm covering.

What's The Work

Death's Head II is a cyborg assassin from the future design by A.I.M. who is capable of assimilating his enemies abilities etc. He was originally named Minion, created by Dr. Evelyn Necker due to a prophecy of sorts of an evil foe that would destroy A.I.M. and now let's get to our foe.

Who's Baron Wolfgang von Strucker V/Charnel?

As mentioned before, he's the direct descendent of Baron Strucker himself, and a Evil Sorcerer who use necromantic magic and science to fuse his body with the previous version of Death's Head becoming the demonic Main/Magitek entity known only as Charnel. Quickly becoming Death's Head's Arch-Enemy, He murders the man named Spratt who gave him the body of Death's Head and goes out massacring everyone at A.I.M. headquarters while fusing the dead bodies together into a twisted monument of sorts. Now going back in time to Take Over the World by causing a bleak apocalyptic dystopia which I'll get into soon. But in the first miniseries, we see a glimpse of it, where he starts fighting what remains of Earth's heroes, killing heroes such as Spider-Man, Daredevil, Dr. Strange, and later the Punisher. And we also learned he turned Reed Richards/Mister Fantastic into a literal putty with his sorcery, forcing Reed into living in a tube for the rest of his life.

Our protagonists, Death's Head II, Dr. Necker, and their new companion Tucker goes to A.I.M. headquarters to see the pile of corpses left behind. Then they encounter the future heroes (such as Captain America, Wolverine, Rhino, Scarlet Witch, and She-Hulk) who went back in time to prevent Charnel from causing the apocalypse. Charnel appears before them and battle ensues. He snaps She-Hulk's neck, and absorbing Scarlet Witch's magic to make himself a literal demon god. Now using his newfound powers to obliterated the other heroes, bragging how the whole world is his to play with and everyone is now a toy for him to kill on a whim along with how he'll reshape the world in his own twisted image. Luckily, Death's Head II used a device that split Strucker V/Charnel in two separate beings, flinging one in the past and the other in the future.

In Death's Head II Vol. 2, Strucker/Charnel returns as his two fragment fused together. He immediately tries to take over the world (or "burn" this world) yet again while trying to murder our protagonists once they are in his way. Burning one of allies of the protagonists alive. But Death's Head II and company manages to defeat and kill him. Now let's get to his Alternate Universe counterpart where he does win.

See in his dystopia known as the "Charnel Continuum", which we get more into via Death³ is akin to Apokolips as Scraggle described. Charnel killed billions, drove most of humanity to extinction and established a demonic regime of sorts where he created mechanical monsters he sent out to massacre more innocent people from women to babies as seen in flashbacks, and even have some crucified by his monstrosities. As the Evil Overlord of the world now, Charnel decided he has gone tired of ruling it and when he learns his "Son", an android named Death Metal who is one of Charnel's monsters gained sapience by Dr. Necker, is from the past where he gets defeated he decided to prevent this future and convert Earth-616's reality into a new version of his world which would kill billions more people. And the fact his reality is gonna get erased because of time travel bullshit, he decided to live his own timeline to die for the sake of preserving his own life. And now he also wants to spread this excursion across the Stars as well.

Gouging his "son" into destroying his own brothers Death's Head and Death Wreck (another creation of Dr. Necker and the oldest), Charnel also starts murdering dozens of the joined forces of the rebel forces led by his verse's Tony Stark. Now, he offered his "son" Death Metal a position as his right hand man since he'll be useful to him, but then Death Metal duped him and had a Heel–Face Turn. Death Metal along with his siblings joined forces and kill Charnel, ending his reign of terror for good.

Mitigating Factors

As discussed with Scraggle (thanks for some help me on this), Strucker V does mentioned his outrage on the fact A.I.M. turned their back on his family including his great grandfather who founded the company and the very reason for their successes and all of their glory. So he decided to become the being known as Charnel to take his revenge on them. This is no different from MCU!Ronan the Accuser, it's nothing but an excuse and it doesn't help that it comes across as pretty egotistical pride than genuine love for his family almost identical to the MCU!Ronan.

Even with that, as soon as he became Charnel everything else he does after killing most of A.I.M.'s employees has nothing to do with his family at all. He goes out trying to start an apocalypse For the Evulz slaughtering humanity, and when he does come back within one of A.I.M.'s headquarters after his two halves fused back, instead of actually going on a Roaring Rampage of Revenge or any particular resentment (though does through a few insults here and there) he's far more concerned with Taking Over The World than what he originally wanted was to avenge his family line. Even stated to the protagonists and the rest of the members of AIM that they're are in his way of world domination and not once mentioning his family at all nor about avenging them, just his desire for conquest.

Now with Alternate!Charnel is he does offer his "Son" Death Metal a position of being his Dragon for his conquest and have him conquer worlds in his name, though I'm having a hard time seeing this as "care" and rather seeing him as someone as a very useful asset. It didn't help that he didn't show any care when he plummeted into a giant hole potentially to his death while fighting his siblings.

So overall, this guy is a sadistic psycho who gains a god complex of sorts, caring more about conquering or destroying the world for power and fun than anything else.

Heinous Standards

Even when compared to the original Baron Strucker who does awful things usually, this version (or at least his descendant) manages to become leagues worse. He's a mass Hero Killer, he causes mass genocide killing billions and plan to kill billions more in a destructive conquest along with causing an apocalypse. He reduce the Earth into a hellish wasteland and rules through mass murders and death, and seeks to reduce another Earth this way while abandoning his own to die to save his own skin while planning to go conquer more worlds to enslave and genocide other races. This is by far the worse Baron Strucker to grace this thread I believe.

Final Verdict

I'll give a yes to him, but what do you guys think?

Also if he does pass, including his alternate self, I'm giving them separate writeups because I feel that the alternate version of Strucker V does enough to warrant one. This guy is probably one of the most vile villains I've proposed here.

Edited by Powermaster201 on Sep 10th 2022 at 4:19:44 AM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#323589: Sep 10th 2022 at 12:36:41 AM

I guess I will say [tup] Strucker thinking about it more, still not fully confident.

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#323590: Sep 10th 2022 at 1:13:45 AM

[tup] MCP and Strucker/Charnel. Keep Raker.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#323591: Sep 10th 2022 at 1:57:51 AM

[tup]MCP and Strucker.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
Misry6 Imperfect Disgrace from the Eternal Nothingness Since: Nov, 2021 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Imperfect Disgrace
#323593: Sep 10th 2022 at 3:03:23 AM

[tup] MCP.

Just an empty void…
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#323594: Sep 10th 2022 at 3:58:25 AM

Yes to MCP and Strucker/Charnel.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#323595: Sep 10th 2022 at 4:58:13 AM

Yes to Charnel. To paraphrase from my PM: in this case, the family is represented less as "I love you and I'm going to avenge you, Dad" and more as a myopic way of victim-blaming the other side for their own atrocities, essentially reducing his entire family to a giant excuse.

WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#323596: Sep 10th 2022 at 5:37:57 AM

[tup] MCP, Strucker

BTW @Scraggle I did PM you letting you know I added your name to the reservations on the Captain America & Black Panther Game as well.

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#323597: Sep 10th 2022 at 7:20:46 AM

Btw I'm going to reserve the last book in the Teen killers club. I actually know someone who could keep but their arc is ongoing. PM me if your interested.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#323598: Sep 10th 2022 at 7:21:11 AM

[tup] to the MCP and Strucker

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]

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