During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I ran across this on the TV Subpage. I'm not super familiar with this show but honestly, he doesn't sound bad enough especially since he's an agent for a bigger organization. If he does stay up he should probably get a rewrite.
- The Man from U.N.C.L.E.: Season 3's "Five Daughters Affair" two-parter (later released in theaters as The Karate Killers) has THRUSH agent Randolph, whose plot involves releasing seawater-derived gold onto the market in order to create massive profits for THRUSH. His actions include seducing the wife of the doctor who created the method then killing her once he has no more use for her, gleefully taunting her before murdering her; poisoning the doctor; attempting to behead Illya in an ice-chopping machine; smacking around Sandy; and shooting an unarmed elderly man just for raising his voice to him. These acts, coupled with his general Smug Snake demeanor, cement Randolph as probably the series's nastiest villain.
3 Kills (i presume the "poison the doctor" is fatal) and some attempted murders? Is that even baseline?
Also El Jauco added another reservation in the discussions page for Inside Out 2 and they've not brought it in the thread.
Edited by WetFlannels on Sep 9th 2022 at 2:55:40 PM
What's wrong D-16? Rise up!They didn't respond to the last one, so I'm gonna go ahead and chainsaw their reservations. If they wanna make some, they're gonna come here to do it right. This is a good time to note that they've not only been on the thread before, but they've made several EP's, so they should already know to at least come here before just taking a reservation.
Also, somehow the fact that we need to announce reservations on both the page and the thread isn't on the top of the page, so I've gone ahead and added that.
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Sep 9th 2022 at 10:04:19 AM
When it comes to the film I will say, as someone who did really like the first film, it's incredibly unlikely that the sequel will have a CM, and it doesn't really need one frankly. I mean if someone wants to reserve it I guess they could but probably not worth it.
I know that, I am just stating in general.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Sep 9th 2022 at 7:09:06 AM
Lmao. Riley gets a secret sixth personality who Mind Rapes the other personalities, takes over Riley, and turns her into a serial killer.
Alright since it looks like he is keeping here is my rewrite.
Original:
- Untitled series by JudasFM
: Raker the Jackal first appears in Caves of the Ancients
, before which he had sold Tails out to a slave mine, and much earlier on, killed his own father, leading to his mother's suicide by drowning, and abusing his brother, who he renamed Bait, while ever since leading a gang responsible for actions like blowing up houses. While Sonic, Knuckles, and Bait head to the Scrap Brain Zone to save Tails, Raker stalks them the whole way, and blows up the Oil Ocean Zone during one of their confrontations. When Sonic calls him out on this the next day, his response is to casually say he didn't stop to think things through. In the next fic Sins of the Mothers
, he teams up with Knuckles's thought-to-be-dead mother and Dr. Robotnik, in hopes of getting Bait back, just so that he could torture and kill him. Getting him back also involved blowing up a building with Vector inside. Robotnik finds his actions just as appalling as everyone else. Bait is the only one who has any respect for him, because of "family loyalty", even though Sonic tries to get through to him that Raker does not return this. It speaks volumes when even Sekko, who runs the slave mine and ordered Knuckles's lost sister dead before being killed himself by the person he asked to carry it out, pales in comparison.
Mine:
- Untitled series by JudasFm
: In the past, Raker the Jackal had killed his father and drove his mother to suicide before abusing his brother, whom he would later name Bait. Raker would lead a gang responsible for numerous crimes, such as blowing up houses and selling Tails into slavery. During Caves of the Ancients
, Sonic, Knuckles, and Bait head to the Scrap Brain Zone to save Tails, so Raker goes after them and ends up blowing up Oil Ocean Zone, killing thousands of people in the process. In the next fic, Sins of the Mothers
, he teams up with Knuckles' thought-to-be-dead mother and Dr. Robotnik, in hopes of getting Bait back, just so that he can torture and kill him.
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Pretty sure there's a massive agency issue there
Also approve of the rewrite there Ordeaux
What's wrong D-16? Rise up!Indeed add away, STAR!
Alright, for this one...took me awhile to come around on him, but I think, with a recent rewatch? He lands.
What's the work?
TRON is the classic 1982 Science Fiction flick starring Jeff Bridges as Kevin Flynn, a brilliant game coder and programmer who, in his quest to expose the corruptionof the villainous Corrupt Corporate Executive Ed Dillinger, finds himself sucked inside "the Grid", a cyberspace where an entire race of being called Programs fight to escape the tyranny of the Master Control Program. Flynn, as a legendary "User", teams with a variety of Programs—notably the titular Tron—to take down the nasty empire oppressing the Grid and save the day.
Who is the Master Control Program? What has he done?
Voiced by David Warner, the Master Control Program—"MCP"—serves as the Big Bad for the film.
Created by ENCOM's CEO Ed Dillinger as a simple chess program, the MCP gained further sapience over the years as he was given more responsibilities and programming by Dillinger and others to become a full-fledged admin of ENCOM's systems and the virtual world known as the Grid, populated by sentient Programs.
The MCP, over the course of time, instituted his own brutal regime into the Grid. He creates an army of Programs loyal to him and oppresses the masses of the Grid, empowering his right-hand Program Sark to torture and "derezz" (murder) any Programs who dare work against the MCP. The MCP rounds up swathes of Programs to either force them to become his loyal slaves, or be subject to a brutal string of Gladiator Games that, inevitably, prove lethal to each and every Program put through them. The MCP also regularly rounds up dozens of Programs and personally, agonizingly tears them apart in a torturous process that assimilates them into himself.
When human Kevin Flynn tries to hack into ENCOM for to expose Dillinger for stealing a video game idea, the MCP reacts by using a digitizing weapon to drag Flynn into the Grid, subjecting him to the Games and all the nastiness he can muster after painfully derezzing Flynn's sentient Program CLU...meanwhile, when Dillinger himself tries to stand up to the MCP, the MCP reveals his plan to take his tyranny to the human world as well, intending to hijack the Pentagon, the Kremlin, etc. and Take Over the World for his dictatorial means, and he blackmails Dillinger into silence to further assist his plans.
Regularly subjecting Sark himself to torture and threats for even perceived slights, the MCP dispatches Sark to round up an escaped Flynn and the Programs assisting him through any means, leading to Sark killing off and torturing further Programs. The MCP rounds up the latest batch of Programs to be brutally assimilated by him, the Programs screaming in pain as the MCP empowers Sark to murder Flynn and derezz the rebels helping him in one, fell swoop...but luckily, Flynn overcomes Sark and the MCP, destroying his programming once and for all and saving the Programs—and humanity—from the MCP for good.
Mitigating features?
Not a one, no agency issues as a typical A.I. Is a Crapshoot example and even though he seems distressed when Sark is beaten before him, it's purely out of self-interest as he's spent the whole movie torturing and threatening Sark at the drop of a hat lmao
Heinousness?
So, for years I was pretty negative on the MCP hitting the stand, but over time that's slowly dissipated and now gone as I've rewatched... here's what kind of competition he's got:
- The next Big Bad of the franchise, CLU 2.0, runs further "games", leads a genocide campaign against the ISOs, and plans to invade Earth while enslaving Programs.
- Tesler oppresses Argon City and sends dozens of Programs to Games emulating the MCP's own, personally murders his own men regularly, and employs total psychopaths like Pavel, who himself slaughters a room of Programs and tortures countless more.
- Cyrus tries to wipe out the whole Grid in one bomb, derezzes a couple Programs, and targets the loved ones of Tron.
Nasty competition, but, on top of the MCP being the OG Tron baddie who set the standard for decades? The MCP has plenty vileness of his own as he's oppressed the entire Grid for years, having sent countless Programs to the Games that Tesler and his ilk only copied from the MCP, he regularly subjects dozens of Programs to painful assimilation to steal their very identities and lives, he empowers Sark to torture and derezz his way through plenty Programs while torturing and threatening Sark himself, he plans to take his evil to the human realm by hijacking all military computers and dominating humanity.
Cyrus is a rogue element who gets very specific, lucky circumstances set up to allow his Omnicidal Maniac goals, and Tesler and Pavel are lower on the "mass suffering" scale than the MCP, so CLU 2.0 is his main competition, but the MCP does a lot to stand on his own merits especially with his Assimilation Plot of countless Programs into himself while being the originator of the Games which—along with his assimilations—are established to have been going on a long, long time...I think he's got enough, all things considered.
Final Verdict?
I'd give the MCP a Yes, upon reevaluation.
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Morningstar, Franklyn, Eddie, Pediatrician, Gideon, Amok, Frieza, Nick, The End, Jasper, Adrian, Wilf, Myca, Raker's rewrite, MCP.
Abstain on DIO.
Cut Dodge and the KH sandbox.
Zib.
to MCP
Say could CLU count? (Not familiar with the movies so forgive me for asking)
My sandbox of EPs and other stuffNah, for all his nastiness he gets enough complexity given to him in his final moments to knock him out, he genuinely values Flynn to a point and feels betrayed by him not aligning with CLU 2.0's Knight Templar goals.
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!

@WetFlannels: Sure, I'll collaborate with you on that.