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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#322976: Sep 3rd 2022 at 5:04:26 PM

@Siegfried: I'll update Lyblac's writeup in time. The two weeks have elapsed but just be patient, please—it's a big project for Ravok and I and we're going to have a few posts.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#322977: Sep 3rd 2022 at 5:07:46 PM

Yes to MGD's duo and the Hornet. Cautious no to Arisa since I haven't officially voted and we haven't gotten a response to anything yet.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#322978: Sep 3rd 2022 at 5:10:06 PM

Not gonna vote on Arisa. The amount of controversy we get over fics like these isn't worth the engagement, IMO. "Yes" to Hornet, however, and MGD's two.

[down]The OP (who also seems to be the only regular editor of the fic's subpages) added that. Let's chop chop chop.

Edited by Scraggle on Sep 3rd 2022 at 6:17:25 AM

Siegfried1337 Calabash. from The Eastern Luminant Since: Sep, 2018 Relationship Status: Will you go out with me to the End?
Calabash.
#322979: Sep 3rd 2022 at 5:14:10 PM

@Scraggle: Ok, I can wait.

[tdown] to Arisa. Also, who put the draft in the sandbox?

Edited by Siegfried1337 on Sep 3rd 2022 at 5:15:00 AM

Eh, good enough.
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#322980: Sep 3rd 2022 at 5:19:55 PM

[tup] Jan, Lloyd, Fred and Hornet

[tdown] Arisa

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#322982: Sep 3rd 2022 at 6:28:11 PM

[tup] to Jan, Lloyd, Fred and Hornet

[tdown] to Arisa

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#322983: Sep 3rd 2022 at 6:54:15 PM

Hornet kills 23 in Bullet Train.

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#322987: Sep 3rd 2022 at 8:56:00 PM

Hey so I just finished watching The Mentalist and after discussing it with Mir and Ravok, I may have a candidate worth discussing, so lets talk about it.

What’s the Work?

The Mentalist is an American Police Procedural starring Simon Baker as the former Psychic turned crime consultant Patrick Jane. The first 5.5 seasons follow Jane as he works with the CBI (California Bureau of Investigation) to bring the Serial Killer Red John to justice along with the occasional Arc Villain and/or Villain of the week, which ends with Jane finding and killing Red John. Now the last 1.5 seasons has Jane become a consultant to the FBI using his skills to bring more criminals to justice and among the baddies post Red John, this one may be the most depraved, Micheal Ridley.

Who Is he? What Has he Done?

Micheal Ridley is a wealthy businessman who made his debut in the Season 6 episode “Brown Eye Girls” who reveals himself to be the mastermind behind a massive Human Trafficking ring where countless, possibly hundreds, of innocent women and girls are kidnapped and trafficked throughout the world where they would either end up as Sex Slaves and murder so that Ridley can harvest their organs and sells to his clients.

By the time Jane and the FBI learn of Ridley’s human trafficking ring at least fifteen women were butchered and killed for their organs on Ridley’s orders, one girl gets killed trying to escape from Ridley’s imprisonment, while dozens of girls get shipped out of America.

Ridley also proves himself to be just as cruel and callous to his own employees, willing to have them kill if they prove to be liabilities to him usually having his right-hand man Anthony Tremel such as having Tremel slit James O’Connor’s throat ear to ear, having Ray and Ari Qasimi stabbed to death and coerces Tremel into attempting to blow Lark up, which may also kill the FBI agents in the facility, and when Lark survives, Ridley manipulates Lark to kill himself by threatening to kill his daughter, (it’s left unclear if Ridley decided to have said daughter killed anyway).

Eventually Jane takes matters into his own hands where he drugs Ridley and takes Ridley downstair where Jane along with Libson tricks Ridley into confessing his crimes by making him believe that they’re willing to kill him after tricking Ridley into thinking that they kill his hitman Anthony in front of him, where the FBI proceeds to dismantle Ridley’s human trafficking ring, rescue the surviving women, and put Ridley behind bars.

Freudian Excuse? Redeeming Qualities?

All that’s known about Ridley is that he is a businessman who uses his company as a front to hide his massive human trafficking ring and while Ridley claims that the organs harvested from the butchered corpses of his victims will go to prominent individuals like scientists and businessmen, it’s clear that there’s no well-intentions behind this with his only concerns are making money and scientists and businessmen just so happen to be rich with money.

While his character page claims that he has a liking to his right-hand Anthony, Ridley only values Anthony as an asset he can use to dispose of liabilities and there’s only interactions are just business transactions with Ridley telling Anthony who to kill and none of these interactions are shown to be friendly, and in fact when Anthony is reluctant to detonate a bomb to kill Lark, Ridley has to coerce Anthony into following his orders, confirming that Anthony is aware that Ridley is willing to kill him if he’s a liability too.

While Ridley does seem shocked when he’s led to believe Jane and Libson killed Anthony even saying that, that’s only because he believed that the he’ll be next to get kill and his only concern is trying to save himself to which he tells them about the enslaved girls solely to save his own hide, and even when all is said and done, Ridley only says that Anthony was just an employee of his rather than friend so yeah I think that’s a no-go there to.

Heinousness

Even in a show that consist of the likes of Red John, Cale Sylvan, Thomas Volker, and even Lazarus who killed 11 people in the final season (Lazarus doesn’t count as a CM since he seemed to be genuinely insane), I think Micheal Ridley is able to stand out with his MO of kidnapping and trafficking hundreds of innocent women where they would either be sold to sexual slavery or killed so that their organs can be harvest, how massive his human trafficking ring really is, and even having his own employees killed if they are liabilities to him, all while showing absolutely no remorse in committing all these atrocities.

Final Verdict?

I’ll leave it to you guys to decide.

Edited by G-Editor on Sep 3rd 2022 at 11:56:13 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#322988: Sep 3rd 2022 at 9:35:20 PM

Yes to Hornet and Ridley.

ACW: MCU: The Abomination is now a thing I think his novelization version counts.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#322990: Sep 3rd 2022 at 10:22:10 PM

Yes. I'll also have Locke and Key discussed soon, along with a Derek Jacobi.

DarthNoxIsCool Since: Jun, 2022
#322991: Sep 3rd 2022 at 10:42:37 PM

[tup]Hornet.

At first I didn't think she would count because of the short time on screen, but in the end that's enough.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#322992: Sep 3rd 2022 at 10:50:56 PM

[up][up] oh hey Lighty any potential candidates on Westworld too assuming you finished watching it? (You and I had that reserved and I think I know who may count, but it wouldn’t be polite to discuss without your thoughts too)

[down] cool looking forward to discussing it

Edited by G-Editor on Sep 3rd 2022 at 2:12:54 PM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#322994: Sep 3rd 2022 at 11:15:26 PM

A potential Westworld candidate, I didn't expect that due to how much the show runs on complex morality, but I am obviously willing to hear it out.

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#322995: Sep 3rd 2022 at 11:29:20 PM

Yep to Ridley! And yes to the Hornet as well

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#322996: Sep 4th 2022 at 12:28:48 AM

[tup] Jan, Lloyd and Fred, Hornet and Ridley. [tdown] Arisa.
Best wishes to your mum, Polar.

Edited by CloisterTheStupid on Sep 4th 2022 at 8:28:57 PM

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#322997: Sep 4th 2022 at 1:01:16 AM

Best wishes to your mom Polar. Hope she feels better.

Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#322998: Sep 4th 2022 at 1:02:11 AM

Couple days late, but it's been two weeks since Dragon Ball Super: Super Hero has came out in the States. Shouldn't take too long.

Nobody counts. Out of the six villains in the movie, three of them have redeeming qualities and make Heel Face Turns (Hedo, and Gammas 1 and 2) one of them is a mindless Generic Doomsday Villain (Cell Max) and while Magenta and Carmine don't have either of those disqualifying factors, they fail the heinous standard by a country mile. The worst they do is try to get the heroes killed, and have a toddler (Gohan's daughter Pan) kidnapped. I guess Magenta releasing Cell MAX despite knowing how much chaos it'll cause is an extra tick mark in Magenta's favor, but there's no implication he intended it to destroy the planet, and even if he did, still wouldn't be anywhere close enough with how high Dragon Ball's heinous standard is.

Edited by Awesomekid42 on Sep 4th 2022 at 2:02:42 PM

WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#322999: Sep 4th 2022 at 1:10:27 AM

[tup] Ridley

Jw but what's the difference between "Van Zant Syndrome" and "Criminal Minds Syndrome"?

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#323000: Sep 4th 2022 at 1:17:39 AM

I don't even remember who or what Van Zant is, but neither one's an "official" term AFAIK (that would make this thread even more inaccessible). 'Criminal Minds syndrome', at least, is just slang for an excessively high heinousness standard.

Edited by nrjxll on Sep 4th 2022 at 3:17:55 AM


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