During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Eh, unsure. He seems rather low-key for a Sentai, or even a Metal Heroes, CM. Especially compared to, say, Abrella.
Speaking of Abrella, does The Man Behind the Man work better for him than Big Bad?
Edited by ACW on Sep 2nd 2022 at 5:32:47 AM
So is Big Bad even appropriate, or is there a better trope for his name?
If you really want to change it to something else, you could pothole him as Arms Dealer and change the first line to be "Agent Abrella sells weapons to criminals..."
Nobody responded, so I figured I may as well ask again — has anyone reserved Cult of the Lamb and/or has it already been discussed? If not on both counts, I was wanting to discuss Narinder, the One Who Waits.
Umh not sure since this is Dekaranger. Which has villains like
- Byz Goa who plays a sadistic game of hiding bombs on planets before blowing them up.
- Sumasuleenian Nikaradar who creates a group of monsters and uses them to consume planets to feed him.
- Suspect X (Abrella's apprentice) who plans to literally turn humanity into Empty Shells.
The entire show is filled with mass murderers. Like the guy from the first episode murdered a child.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."@ Arwan999: Cult of the Lamb hasn’t been discussed yet so feel free to discuss it
Edited by G-Editor on Sep 2nd 2022 at 5:45:03 AM
My sandbox of EPs and other stuffActually, I found Abrella at Diabolical Mastermind, which seems to fit well.
EDIT: Actually, nah...Bat Out of Hell
Edited by ACW on Sep 2nd 2022 at 5:49:01 AM
Go for it on Cult... likewise unsure on the Toku fellow. Along with mir's heinous concerns the trope page seems to assert he is Mad Gallant and I'm not seeing anything contradict the character's love for his father. Is this an alternate version of the character or is Lars separate from the soul imbuing him or something? Nvm mir cleared this up to me in PMs.
Edited by 43110 on Sep 2nd 2022 at 5:47:16 AM
Look maybe if this was any Sentai but Dekaranger id be more lenient but like every possible bad thing you could think off happens their when very dark things like xhild murder and implied rape (yeesh).
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
That's a fair point actually. I would say it depends on whether you choose to view the film as a Dekaranger work or as its own thing, given how flaky Sentai has been on its continuity and whether it takes place in the same universes as Metal Heroes, or if that's just a Crossover Alternate Universe.
Okay so lets pose this. For the thread do we want to take this thing as it's own thing?
As noted. Super sentai continuity between seasons does not exist (like if we're to try and slot these all in the same universe. The dinosaurs were apparently wiped out by four different villain factions??? ). So crossovers like this kind of shoudlnt be possible.
Edited by miraculous on Sep 2nd 2022 at 3:09:34 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Honestly? If any work has Dekaranger in canon, any candidate is gonna be a hard sell. It's got an absurd heinous standard not just for Sentai, but compared to most fiction. The Monsters of the Week are not only independent, a large number of them have committed genocides, sparked wars, and destroyed planets with little more than equipment from Abrella, and now plan to do the same to Earth. Abrella himself makes it because of his proud complicity in selling criminals equipment to do this and personally being involved in destroying entire galaxies. So
Lars.
Edited by finalsurvivor1 on Sep 2nd 2022 at 7:10:38 AM
What is the Work
Cult of the Lamb — In a world of Funny Animals, a Lamb is dragged before the Bishops of the Old Faith for the sin of worshiping the One Who Waits, a fallen god. The Bishops have hunted down nearly all of the One Who Waits' followers, and the Lamb is one of the last.
The Lamb is killed... but rather than passing to the afterlife finds themself before the One Who Waits, who offers to save the Lamb from death in exchange for founding a cult, hunting down and killing the Four Bishops, and freeing the One Who Waits from his metaphysical prison. To facilitate this, the One Who Waits bestows the Lamb with his crown — the source of the bulk of his power — before sending him back to the world of the living.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
A three-eyed black cat embodying death, the One Who Waits — originally known as Narinder — was once one of the Five Bishops of the Old Faith, dark gods who presided over murderous cults they ruled through tyranny and suffering. Following Shamura the spider-god introduced the notion of change to Narinder, the cat-god decided to become the sole Bishop of the Old Faith and turned on his siblings, attempting to kill them. Leshy the worm-god's eyes were torn out, Heket the toad-goddess' throat was torn out, Kallamar the fish-god's ears were torn off, and Shamura's skull was split open. Despite their injuries, the Four Bishops sealed Narinder away and ordered their followers to hunt Narinder's down.
To facilitate his escape, Narinder — now known only s "the One Who Waits" — decided to bestow his crown upon one of his followers, Ratau the rat. On Narinder's orders, Ratau established a cult and set out to kill the Four Bishops to break the chains binding the One Who Waits. However, Ratau ultimately balked at being ordered to sacrifice one of his followers and returned Narinder's crown to him — Narinder deeming him a pathetic failure due to his lack of bloodlust.
Narinder resurrects a Lamb sacrificed by the Four Bishops and chooses them as his new Vessel, charging them to succeed where Ratau failed. As the Lamb's cult grows, Narinder encourages them to treat their own followers as expendable — sacrificing them as tribute, for a power-up, or even just because — and slaughter the worshipers of the Four Bishops with reckless abandon. With each Bishop slain, Narinder mocks his siblings as pathetic for daring to stand in the path of his conquest; and once the last Bishop is slain Narinder commands the Lamb to return the Red Crown and give themself up as a final sacrifice to him so that he can return to the World of the Living — taking the Lamb's followers captive to torment them.
Should the Lamb accept, Narinder kills them while laughing, then sets out to conquer the world and remake it in his image as he originally planned.
Should the Lamb refuse, Narinder flies into a rage and attacks the Lamb to retake his crown by force, vowing to make the Lamb suffer eternally for their defiance. Upon being defeated, Narinder asks if the Lamb will finish him off and prove themself a worthy successor, or spare him and prove themself a merciful coward.
If he is killed, Narinder approves of the Lamb's ruthlessness before dying, saying they have become just like himself. If spared, Narinder is inducted into the Lamb's cult and begrudgingly becomes one of his followers, though he still mocks and berates the Lamb for their shortcomings and being an unworthy successor.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
None to my knowledge. Shamura blames themself for introducing the concept of change to Narinder, which was what spurred his decision to betray the other Bishops, but it was Narinder's conscious choice to betray them. If he had any familial affection towards his siblings, he renounced it in favour of seeking to kill them and become the sole god of the world, intending to induct all the inhabitants of the world into his cult.
The one hiccup I can find is Narinder begrudgingly thanking the Lamb if his random request to be sent on a Crusade is granted, but that's only if he's inducted into the cult — which is implied to involve a degree of brainwashing.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
The Lamb's actions are carried out at Narinder's bequest, and he praises them for being ruthless and cruel to their followers — saying their worshipers' lives are currency to be spent to empower them — and scolds them for being merciful.
The other Bishops are ruthless and cruel, but no more or less so than Narinder himself — and their cruelty is to both ensure their own power remains intact and to prevent Narinder from escaping his prison.
Final Verdict?
Edited by Arawn999 on Sep 2nd 2022 at 11:14:01 AM

While I'm at it, I have a new Metal Heroes candidate from the Space Squad films and two possible MBs from it as well.
What's the work?
Space Sheriff Gavan VS Tokusou Sentai Dekaranger is the first installment in the Space Squad series, which involve various Super Sentai and Metal Heroes teaming up to do battle against the Genmakuu, a Legion of Doom comprised of past Metal Hero villains. This film crosses over Geki Jumonji, the new Gavan seen in Space Sheriff Gavan: The Movie, with the Tokusou Sentai Dekaranger.
The plot is pretty straight forward. After Geki loses his partner Shelly in a failed operation to capture the Genmakuu commander Mad Gallant, he enlists the (initially reluctant) Dekarangers to help him track Mad Gallant down and figure out what his plan is.
Who is the villain? What does he do?
Lars, a Corrupt Corporate Executive who is secretly the new incarnation of the Kyojuu Tokusou Juspion villain Mad Gallant, wearing armor imbued with the original Mad Gallant's soul. Lars heads a diaper company called "Happy & Gentleness" which is really a sugary front for his plans to build an ultimate weapon for the Genmakuu, a giant robot built in the image of Juspion's Big Bad, Satan Gorth.
To power the Satan Gorth mecha, Mad Gallant needs a specific kind of blood from "rurenamode" aliens that have the power to shapeshift. As such, Mad Gallant hires an Alienizer named Kuronen to kill rurenamode aliens and drain their blood. His criminal operation soon catches the attention of Geki and the Space Police, but that's exactly what Lars wants, as his ally Benikiba had discovered that Geki's partner Shelly had a high level of Rurenamode in her. Mad Gallant then stages a fake criminal dealing to lure Geki and Shelly out, where he has Kuronen ambush them and kidnaps Shelly.
Lars then brings Shelly to an alter, where he gives her a bare-fisted beatdown until she's bloody in order to collect the rurenamode from it to awaken Satan Gorth, all while clearly having a good time punching Shelly's cute face in. His sadism even disturbs his cohort Benikiba, who chooses to leave rather than continue assisting him, citing the fact that she serves Genmakuu's leader instead of him as the reason why.
Luckily, Geki and the Dekarangers are able to follow the clues to figure out who Mad Gallant is and go to rescue Shelly. Geki then duels Mad Gallant and, with some added help from the original Gavan, defeats Mad Gallant while the Dekarangers kill Kuronen and destroy Satan Gorth.
Heinous Standard
Mad Gallant is definitely the most vile of the Genmakuu commanders seen so far. We don't get an exact number on the amount of rurenamode aliens he had Kuronen kill, but it's implied to be a lot and we at one point even get several grisly images of Kuronen's victims drained of their blood, including one which appears to be of a child. There's also his sadistic beatdown of Shelly, something which even his fellow Genmakuu commander fights distasteful.
Mitigating Factors
While the original Mad Gallant did care for his father, Lars doesn't have anything like that. He's a greedy, power hungry thug who's shown to enjoy causing pain to others.
Final Verdict
I'd give him a
, but I'm interested to hear what you all think.
Just imagine something here.