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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Arawn999 Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#320502: Aug 8th 2022 at 9:03:46 PM

Btw, isn't the stuff he pulled on Harribel anime-only?
Yes, Tier's backstory is exclusive to the anime, and I haven't heard whether it was one of the plot elements that Kubo came up with but couldn't add to the manga, like the Forest of Menos arc was. Also, it wasn't so much stuff Baraggan himself pulled on Tier but what the Menos under his and later Aizen's command did to the Hollows — especially female ones — that refused to follow him.
I find it funny that Cletus Kasady counts as a Complete Monster, but the Carnage symbiote doesn't since it genuinely loved him and saw him as its soul mate... at least until Carnage (2022), where it says that although Cletus has left an indelible mark on it he was ultimately only holding it back from reaching its true potential.

Edited by Arawn999 on Aug 8th 2022 at 9:11:38 AM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#320503: Aug 8th 2022 at 9:13:55 PM

[up] Wait that's news to me. I always thought both the Symbiote and Cletus counted at the same time.

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#320504: Aug 9th 2022 at 12:15:55 AM

Alright, let's get this up before bed.

What's the Work?

Green Lantern: Beware My Power is the latest entry in the Tomorrowverse, centered around former US Marine sniper John Stewart as he finds himself recruited into the Green Lantern Corps and dragged into a war between planets Thanagar and Rann, uncovering a deeper conspiracy that could potentially threaten the entire universe.

Now, the person responsible for starting the war? Our candidate, Sinestro.

Who Is Sinestro? What Does He Do?

Once a Green Lantern and Hal Jordan's mentor before going rogue, Sinestro is the leader of the Sinestro Corps, striving to cause chaos and destruction across the universe. Years ago, he and his corps instigated the war between Rann and Thanagar by staging numerous terrorist attacks that claimed hundreds of lives, including destroying Rann's capital city. After years of senseless conflict, the two species reached a fragile truce, and attempted to work together to use Zeta-Beam technology to boost both planet's economies, the experiment overseen by Hal. Sinestro sabotaged the experiment, however, transporting Thanagar into Rannian space, upsetting the ecosystem of both planets and causing millions of casualties, as well as restarting the war in full force.

With Hal caught in the experiment gone haywire and heavily injured, Sinestro infected him with the Parallax entity, hoping to bend him to his will. With the corrupted Hal by his side, Sinestro spearheaded an assault on Oa, all but wiping out the Guardians and the Green Lantern Corps. However, the corrupted Hal usurps control from Sinestro, seeking to destroy and remake the universe, with Sinestro becoming his main acolyte in his goals.

When John, Green Arrow, Hawkgirl and Adam Strange infiltrate Sinestro's base and are captured, they are placed with Hal, posing as another prisoner. Sinestro uses them to learn about Rann's plan to turn the Zeta-force into a planet killer to destroy Thanagar, then launches an assault on Rann to take the weapon so he and Hal can use it to destroy the universe. Following John's group past Rann security, Sinestro and his forces engage them in battle, he and John facing off against each other. Sinestro deprives John of his ring and gloatingly prepares to finish off the last of the Green Lanterns, only for John to pull the ring through Sinestro's chest, killing him. The mortally wounded Sinestro uses his last breath to declare that his master will kill them all before perishing.

Mitigating factors?

So, from what I know about comic!Sinestro, he has several noble qualities and is a Well-Intentioned Extremist.

They ain't present here. This movie's incarnation of Sinestro is pretty much stripped of all his comic counterpart's nuance and is nothing but a psychopath who, in his own words, can't get enough of killing. While he didn't initially plan on Hal taking control from him, he's gleefully complicit in his omnicidal goals since, as Hal puts it, he thrives on chaos and death.

Heinous standard?

Thus far, Sinestro's in the running for the worst in the Tomorrowverse. He's slaughtered hundreds in terrorist attacks, started and perpetuated a senseless war that's caused countless deaths, sabotages an experiment that kills millions of people, wipes out the Guardians and the Green Lantern Corps, and aids in the corrupted Hal's efforts to destroy and remake the universe.

Final Verdict?

I'm giving a Yes here.

Why so serious?
Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#320505: Aug 9th 2022 at 12:17:34 AM

[tup] to Sinistro, it seems we finally have a version of him that counts. I had a feeling it'll happen eventually.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#320506: Aug 9th 2022 at 12:24:02 AM

I'll vote later, but not the first Sinestro CM.

EDIT: Bullman, got 'em. Kinda surprised Jamie has her own page before Laurie.

Edited by ACW on Aug 9th 2022 at 3:39:56 PM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#320507: Aug 9th 2022 at 12:25:27 AM

[tup] Sinestro, jesus I did not expect him to be this bad in the film.

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
TellAll111 Since: Jun, 2010
Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#320510: Aug 9th 2022 at 12:56:12 AM

@ACW Could you also please add Danada along with the Alien Nation keepers too? Ape Nation is a crossover with Alien Nation hence the name "Ape Nation", and Danada's species (tenctonese) are from that show.

[down][down] thanks! grin

Edited by Powermaster201 on Aug 9th 2022 at 4:14:43 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#320512: Aug 9th 2022 at 1:13:31 AM

[up][up] Got it, I think. I added it to the Alien Nation YMMV and potholed Alien Nation for the title Ape Nation on the Apes sandbox.

Yes to the Apes duo and Sinestro.

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#320513: Aug 9th 2022 at 1:53:25 AM

  • Planet of the Apes: The Forbidden Zone (Adventure Comics):
    • Kolp is the cruel leader of the mutants who worships the Alpha-Omega Bomb as a god like weapon. Making his introduction by mind-raping the fellow mutant Mendez for standing against Kolp and the other mutants. Kolp used his Psychic Powers to force his own soldiers to kill each other so they be martyrs instead of Mendez, which allowed Mendez escape as disgraced traitor. Kolp orders his army to go furth and kill everyone from the land known as Primacy, both man and ape alike, with his army slaughtering countless along the way to raze Primacy to the ground.
    • Colonel Arvo is the father of Julius, and a xenophobic gorilla with a deep hatred of humanity and would hunt and kill them for sport. Outrage at his son's archeological discoveries, Arvo and his men hunts his son's expedition team, killing two of his compatriots and intends on killing his own son next. Arvo discovers the land where apes and humans live in unity, and decides to wipe out all the humans residing there along with the apes for making peace with them. Arvo massacred the mutant army, even killing those who surrendered with no mercy and tried to kill the human Pell with his barehands in his final moment.

Edited by Powermaster201 on Aug 9th 2022 at 4:55:42 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#320514: Aug 9th 2022 at 1:59:35 AM

[tup]Kolp, Arvo and Sinestro.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#320515: Aug 9th 2022 at 2:11:30 AM

[up][up] I guess this goes at the end of the Malibu tree (since it seems like Adventure is an imprint of Malibu)?

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#320516: Aug 9th 2022 at 2:16:16 AM

[up] I think so, I know this came out after the original Malibu comic series.

Edited by Powermaster201 on Aug 9th 2022 at 5:18:17 AM

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#320517: Aug 9th 2022 at 4:41:10 AM

[tup] to Arvo and Sinestro

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#320518: Aug 9th 2022 at 6:51:39 AM

  • Bolge is the final enemy faced by Kenshiro. Once nothing more than a vicious thug leading a brutal group out tor ape and pillage through the wasteland, Bolge was blinded and mutilated by Kenshiro but was one of the few to survive a Hokuto Shinken assault. Building a bigger army, Bogle carves out his own domain and is known for his love of torture. Brutally crucifying, blinding and torturing an entire army to death, Bolge is made to believe the adult Bat is Kenshiro and tortures him with a power drill, intending to kill Lin out of spite before he dies.
  • Fallout: The Lieutenant of the super Mutants is a vicious fanatic out to enact Mutant supremacy. Sending his forces out to kill and kidnap all they find to turn them into mutants, the Lieutenant is fully cognizant that most will die a horrible death. Upon finding the Vault Dweller, the Lieutenant tortures them for information on their Vault with full intent to massacre the place. Dedicated to the Master's plot, the Lieutenant intends to trigger the Unity to turn all humans into mutants, stating only of the countless deaths that "them's the breaks."
  • Bleach: Pepe Waccabrada is Sternritter "L," the Love. One of the most depraved of all the Quincies, Pepe is considered a disgusting monster by his peers for his power of tearing apart someone's soul and mind, before reconstructing them to love only Pepe to the point of trying to kill their allies. Pepe initiates a massacre at the research facility with this power and later surfaces to turn Hisagi Shuhei into one of his dolls to try to kill Byakuya Kuchiki. Pepe also catches his own allies in his power, openly stating his intent to murder them all so the glory can be his and his alone.
  • Ballad of the Werevixens: Flora, in life, was a woman wicked enough to murder her baby children and feed them to her husband. Returning as a vampire, Flora becomes the bride of Balthazar Rott, roaming the west and killing many people she finds. Opening the novel by luring a little girl to be drained and eaten, it is soon revealed Flora regularly kills children and tortures her victims. Turning on Balthazar and killing him with her allies Inez and Josie when Balthazar refuses to let her keep a baby she's taken a shine to, Flora spurs Josie to greater atrocities and finally attempts to end the entire world, tossing aside the child with no sentiment whatsoever.
  • The Godfather: Don Emilio Barzini is initially an ally to the Corleone family. In truth, the architect of their downfall, Barzini is the secret backer of drug dealer Virgil Sollozzo and Don Philip Tattaglia. Trying to have Vito Corleone murdered before initiating the death of Luca Brasi, Barzini masterminds the resulting gang war with many dead on both sides. Barzini attempts to kill Michael Corleone, instead murdering his young wife in Italy, while having Carlo Rizzi viciously beat his wife Connie to lure her brother Sonny Corleone to his death. Using a peace talk to strip Vito of his remaining power, Barzini intends for drugs to be distributed to minority neighborhoods to "let them lose their souls" for profit, before deciding to have the new Don, Michael, killed and then eliminating the rest of the family.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#320519: Aug 9th 2022 at 7:23:32 AM

Barzini's just in the first film, correct?

Also, since it's a sequel, I'm putting Flora after the Koyotes tree.

Edited by ACW on Aug 9th 2022 at 10:27:55 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#320520: Aug 9th 2022 at 8:28:01 AM

I mean...he's shot to death at the end of it.

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Atlantis1930 Since: May, 2012
#320523: Aug 9th 2022 at 9:42:52 AM

[tup] Sinestro, Kolp, Arvo

Edited by Atlantis1930 on Aug 9th 2022 at 5:43:03 PM

Arawn999 Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#320524: Aug 9th 2022 at 9:57:23 AM

Wait that's news to me. I always thought both the Symbiote and Cletus counted at the same time.
It varies from writer to writer. While some stories treat the Carnage symbiote and Cletus Kasady as a singular entity due to the strength and nature of their bond, there are several where Cletus and the symbiote speak to each other, and if the symbiote bonds to someone other than Cletus it is prone to speaking to them in an attempt to corrupt them.

  • In Amazing Spider-Man #361, during his first outing as Carnage, Cletus tells the symbiote to shut up and let him drive, but like with Venom at the time we weren't privy to what it was saying.

  • In Amazing Spider-Man Vol. 1 #410, the Carnage symbiote speaks through Ben Reilly after bonding to him and taking over his body, and in Spectacular Spider-Man Vol. 1 #233 they have a Battle in the Center of the Mind where it mocks him for thinking he can resist it.

  • In Amazing Spider-Man Vol. 1 #431, the Carnage symbiote mentally tortures Norrin Radd after having taken him over in #430, forcing him to view Cletus Kasady's memories in an attempt to break him.

  • In Venom vs. Carnage, has the Carnage symbiote be the one in the driver's seat, and after they're beaten by Toxin the Carnage symbiote and Cletus bicker Like an Old Married Couple over whose fault it was.

  • In Carnage Vol. 1 the symbiote — who Cletus refers to with female pronouns — tries to mentally break Tanis Nieves by forcing her to view Cletus' memories, and mentally tells Cletus about its new powers, though we don't get to see what it's saying.

  • In Superior Carnage, the symbiote takes over Cletus' comatose body — what with him having been lobotomized by Kaine — and goes on a feeding frenzy, speaks through Karl Malus after seizing control of him, and develops the ability to speak out loud without a host. Klaw initially theorizes that it's acting like a Bratty Teenage Daughter, but later realizes that it's seeking to increase its strength by bonding to other hosts while also trying to mould Cletus into the perfect host.

  • In Superior Carnage Annual the Carnage symbiote speaks through and to its hosts, urging Carla Unger to kill her abusive husband, thanking her after consuming her from the inside out to rejuvenate itself, and calling Cletus its family and flying into a rage when he's killed. Cletus, for his part, says that the symbiote is his soul mate and that they complete each other.

  • In Venomized, Cletus flies into a rage when the Poisons bond him to a new symbiote, screaming that it's not his "darling", demanding that they remove it and bring him the real Carnage symbiote, and declaring his intent to find his beloved symbiote after killing them all. The remnants of the original Carnage symbiote in his body try to stop the new symbiote from bonding to him, but are suppressed.

  • In Go Down Swinging and Red Goblin: Red Death, Norman Osborn and the Carnage symbiote argue with each other, with Norman initially being horrified by its bloodlust before embracing it for the sake of revenge against Spider-Man.

  • In Web of Venom: Carnage Born a flashback shows the remants of the Carnage symbiote attempting to protect Cletus from re-entry plasma only to be incinerated, with Cletus letting out a moan of despair before succumbing to his wounds.

  • In the "Venom Island" arc of Venom (Donny Cates) and Extreme Carnage, Cletus Kasady's codex indwells the Carnage symbiote, letting him control and speak through it.

  • In Carnage (2022), it's revealed that Cletus and the Carnage symbiote have had a falling out, with Carnage planning to become a universe-threatening god-butcher and sneering that Cletus was holding it back.

Edited by Arawn999 on Aug 9th 2022 at 10:04:44 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#320525: Aug 9th 2022 at 10:03:28 AM

The latter one is the only one I can think of where Cletus himself absolutely does not count. Doesn't he have loved ones or something?


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