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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#319926: Aug 2nd 2022 at 1:10:22 PM

[up] I will admit it does come across as Played for Laughs but there is narrative context behind it as I mentioned and Mario in other instances is taking the potential destruction of the world seriously. It's extreme Narm but not something that is meant to be played for laughs.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#319927: Aug 2nd 2022 at 1:11:13 PM

This's why I so seldom vote on fanfic...

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#319928: Aug 2nd 2022 at 1:16:22 PM

Concern has been noted in case we have to suffer through deeper analysis of a shitty fanfic. Not touching it myself but yes to Flora and Lockdown. No to Jack.

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#319929: Aug 2nd 2022 at 1:22:52 PM

[tup] to Flora and Lockdown

[tdown] to Jack

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
speyeker Since: Jan, 2001
#319930: Aug 2nd 2022 at 1:31:25 PM

@EmeraldEmperor @Snowy66

I sent Forenperser a PM after the S&L season 2 finale whether or not he thought Ally/Parasite would count, but he had doubts from the final scene where Lois visits the two in prison.

I always thought Zeta-Rho could possibly count, myself.

Edited by speyeker on Aug 2nd 2022 at 1:31:50 AM

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#319931: Aug 2nd 2022 at 1:48:01 PM

That's the thing about writing a fanfic whether or not you intend a keeper or whether or not you intend it to be darker: you either have to make the tone match so it feels like it could still be the same universe or you have to do something entirely different. If you're just being dark for the sake of it, it's not something that can be seen as legit. If that's not the problem, it's then that whether you intended to or not, the work itself can't be taken seriously BECAUSE your matching or not matching the tone won't support something with the appropriate consistency or legitimacy—be it too far removed or too close to what you're basing it off of.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Aug 2nd 2022 at 1:48:58 AM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#319932: Aug 2nd 2022 at 1:55:28 PM

Honestly rereading it, will abstain. Sounds too absurd.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#319933: Aug 2nd 2022 at 1:55:38 PM

I find myself having a difficult time appreciating it in any light... Riverdale is a hilarious travesty because of how many professional writers, actors and producers funded it so it comes across as much more organic entertainingly in a So Bad, It's Good fashion than "Look, I've found the worst fanfic on the web. There isn't a single sentence that's fully grammatically correct: let's talk about it!"

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#319934: Aug 2nd 2022 at 2:01:28 PM

Honestly reads more like some over the top crappypasta meant for cheap laughs than something serious.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#319935: Aug 2nd 2022 at 2:03:46 PM

That isn't really the case. The story is meant to be a normal High School drama story all of that stuff that happens is treated as serious by the characters. Like I genuinely tried to see if the fanfic was actually a parody Played for Laughs but everything I am looking at tells me that all of the stupid stuff was Narm.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Aug 2nd 2022 at 2:04:07 AM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#319936: Aug 2nd 2022 at 2:07:27 PM

Granted even with the setting of the AU, the setting still sounds wacky kind of like with SMG4where there are "serious" elements, the narrative is overall wacky.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#319937: Aug 2nd 2022 at 2:09:55 PM

Earnestly the dialogue you posted to justify its seriousness ain't filling me with confidence. This seems absurd and I'm questioning how seriously it's meant to be.

Edit: Some of the reviews include notes about a character organizing their tampons and another requesting the author keep their... carnal interests to themselves. Fuck it, I'm saying no.

Edited by 43110 on Aug 2nd 2022 at 5:14:57 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#319938: Aug 2nd 2022 at 2:16:48 PM

Btw Batgirl got cancelleded.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#319939: Aug 2nd 2022 at 2:20:12 PM

[up]Yeah have to agree[up]

And nothing of value was lost.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#319940: Aug 2nd 2022 at 2:22:46 PM

Yeah, that is true that that stuff is in the fic but that is due to it being a High School setting where these kinds of topics aren't exactly uncommon. Eh if he is going to be rejected I don't care much it's a poor fanfiction so not something to care about much.

username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#319941: Aug 2nd 2022 at 2:23:12 PM

Switching to no on Mario Satan.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#319942: Aug 2nd 2022 at 2:23:32 PM

Finished that Matthew Reilly novel. PM me if you're curious.

MinisterOfSinister From 'Ell's 'eart Oi stab at ye! from In the Hall of the Mountain King Since: Jan, 2014 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
From 'Ell's 'eart Oi stab at ye!
#319944: Aug 2nd 2022 at 2:26:11 PM

[up][up][up][up][up][up] Sad. Betcha the Flash movie will still be released despite Ezra Miller's best efforts. Warner Bros. really is just a massive mess right now huh?

Edited by MinisterOfSinister on Aug 2nd 2022 at 10:26:51 AM

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#319945: Aug 2nd 2022 at 2:30:38 PM

[tup] Flora and Lockdown. [tdown] Jacob Parker and Satan.

CookieMonster69 Since: Feb, 2019
#319946: Aug 2nd 2022 at 2:41:56 PM

Sorry, Detroit's population was in the thousands, not millions. Not that it makes much of a difference tho. Its still far higher than his attempted kill count in the cartoon.

Edited by CookieMonster69 on Aug 2nd 2022 at 2:42:37 AM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#319947: Aug 2nd 2022 at 3:03:54 PM

I'm not sure if it will make a difference at this point but I would like to point out the genre of the fanfiction is listed as a Drama, so it does tell me pretty clearly the author was intending to go for something dramatic rather than comedic.

If people don't think that is enough then I am fine to just drop this and move on with voting.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Aug 2nd 2022 at 3:17:18 AM

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#319949: Aug 2nd 2022 at 3:44:49 PM

Sure to Flora and Lockdown.

Sorry Ordeaux, but I'm afraid I have to decline "Janitor Joe", on account of the fic having real Detention (2011) vibes, inasmuch as it appears to engender too much black comedy and comedic sociopathy for Satan to be taken seriously.

I would know. Sander Sanderson, AKA "Cinderhella" was a candidate of mine that had to be cut due to tonal dissonance.

[down] It's a fun movie, and I enjoyed making the effortpost the first time around, but I personally think Sander was cut fair and square.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Aug 2nd 2022 at 6:49:57 AM

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#319950: Aug 2nd 2022 at 3:47:41 PM

Speaking of which, were we ever gonna revisit Sander or is that idea just totally kaput now?


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