During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Since William Afton is going to be delayed, um so I have a very weird fanfiction with a potential CM, I had this planned for after Afton but might as well do so now. Some of you guys may have a hard time believing this but I swear this is somehow a thing.
What is the Work?
Mario High School
is a High School AU fanfiction of the Mario franchise. While these types of fanfictions are usually not the best at producing CM's this is a very weird case. Yeah, this is one of those kinds of fanfictions and well let's not waste any time. Basically in the fanfiction Mario is the most popular guy in high school with a girlfriend and an amazing life. Until a string of murders start causing everything to fall apart.
Who is Satan and What Has He Done?
Yeah, I am not joking this is actually a thing. So it's revealed that Satan is the true mastermind behind everything bad that has happened in the fic, he was disgusting himself as a janitor who was only mentioned in a few lines before. He was the one who murdered Wario and Waluigi, as well as set off a bomb in the cafeteria that murdered dozens more. He framed Bowser for these murders.
All of this was part of a plan to get this, make it so Mario loses his faith in god so Satan can take over as the most popular guy in high school. Satan's motive is that he got bored of ruling over hell and nobody in hell is worshiping him anymore so he is losing power. He saw how popular Mario was so he decided to take his place. For some reason taking over the school will enable him to take over the entire world.
He then plans to impregnate Princess Peach as she is apparently the descendent of some sort of angel goddess. When he does so he will give birth to The Antichrist which will destroy the entire world and transform into a Hell on Earth, completely destroying it and killing everyone in the process.
Satan is able to successfully take over the entire High School by being elected prom king and begins his plan. Satan is able to get Mona to help him get elected as Prom King which Mario is not happy about. Satan gets very close to succeeding in his plan but the heroes are able to defeat him with Rosalina sacrificing herself but eating so much that he explodes and takes Satan down with her. Yes, that is actually how he is defeated.
Yes, this is all taken completely seriously.
Does He have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Alright first of all I will say that there is nothing redeeming when it comes to Satan's character. He is a pretty one-dimensional evil asshole nothing else than that.
Okay, now I should address the really big problem. Yes, I will fully admit the premise of this and a lot of the stuff that happens is absolutely ridiculous and stupid in so many ways. However, the thing is the story is actually trying to take all of this completely seriously.
The murders Satan is responsible for are treated as tragic with multiple characters extremely upset over them and driving a genuine conflict. When Satan is revealed as the villain there isn't a single moment where he is played for laughs, at least as far as I can tell, and the heroes treat his end of the world plot as a serious threat that needs to be stopped or else everyone will die. Rosalina's Heroic Sacrifice while ridiculous how it is done is also treated as a sacrifice that she needed to make to stop a villain from destroying the world.
I mean yes obviously this is all very stupid and dumb in terms of a plot but it is just a very extreme level of Narm. It's honestly quite comparable to Riverdale in that way both of which are high school drama stories with ridiculous plots that are hard to take seriously but the stories are genuinely attempting to take everything seriously. Both of them even involve Satan at some point.
Another thing I will point out. These are all stuff that could be taken seriously by the audience in a different context it's mostly just the way they are used that makes it very ridiculous. It's not really a case that it's impossible to take seriously since the general idea of Satan wanting to create an antichrist and turn the world into a Hell on Earth is something that has been used for CM versions of him before.
Does He meet the Heinousness Standard?
This isn't a problem at all, responsible for dozens of deaths and his final plan is to destroy the entire world after creating a Hell on Earth, all of this is very explicitly treated as the end of the world and will result in billions of deaths if he succeeds.
Final Verdict?
Alright so in this case I will understand if you guys are skeptical about this. Just due to the extreme amount of Narm that really calls into question how serious this is. I will say a yes because reading the fic I genuinely can't see anything disqualifying and it is actually playing all of this stuff seriously despite how ridiculous it is.
If this gets approved this will pretty much be my Riverdale
.
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Mario Satan. Dumb, sure, but not the first time schlock has produced keepers.
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I don't know. All I know is that Sigma has a number of incarnations which keep, as seen on Mega Man. I don't know how much "Maverick Code" was involved but apparently it's not impossible, and also while Sigma's part in the game's plot is so small it's miniscule (it starts and ends roughly around here: https://youtu.be/qZw__yA0L9A?t=3979)
he and Ultron pretty clearly get along and cooperate with each other throughout it.
Ramsay quote, Mario Satan?
Jack the Ripper
Any more final votes for my quote
?
Imma be taking a couple days off the thread because we've had to put my other dog down today.
What's wrong D-16? Rise up!Okay, I'm back and let's kick this off with a new splatter western villain from the novel: Ballad of the Werevixens. I give you Flora
Who is Flora?
Ballad of the Werevixens is a direct sequel to The Thirteenth Koyote. Years after, Delia, the heroine of the first, is now a werewolf/Wolfen herself and wanders the West trying to do good, even though she needs to eat people sometimes (she limits this to bad people best she can)...in another part of the west, a young prostitute named Josie comes into her own Wolfen heritage and learns her father was the monstrous Glenn the Dreadful...she is soon drawn into a web of the vampire Balthazar Rott for his own dark schemes...but the one to discuss here? Balthazar's "bride," Flora.
Who is Flora?
A beautiful blonde woman and powerful vampire, Flora was a promiscuous young woman who left home once she was pregnant and convinced a well off older man the children were his. Flora was fine with a life of luxury but hated being a mother and grew to hate her twin children, more after her husband refused to assist with any of them. Flora slipped into fury after fury, until one day, she murdered the children and butchered them to serve to her husband. Flora was killed for it, but being so wicked, she rose from the grave as a vampire, killed her husband and was soon found by Balthazar Rott, a traveling necromancer and vampire seeking the Menhir, the artifact of doom and evil. Flora tagged along for the ride, killing people constantly with sadistic relish.
The two roped in a young Mexican prostitute named Inez with Balthazar promising to turn her...this was a complete lie, Balthazar just preferring to have her around as a concubine and daytime servant. The novel opens with Flora luring a little girl out by pretending to be a ebautiful fairy, only to reveal her fangs. The next chapter begins with them having finished their meal. It's not even something special. Flora kills kids regularly, and at one homestead, she and Balthazar drain the infants dry and torture the parents. The two then find the home Josie is working at, with Flora massacring the patrons with Balthazar...
Balthazar takes Josie as a lover and turns her into a vampire as well, with her being both a wolfen and vampire now. They continue their killing spree, until Flora halts one slaughter to adopt a baby, upset when Balthazar wants her to kill it. Balthazar refuses to be swayed and attacks Flora...who rallies Josie and Inez to her, by promising to turn Inez and revealing Balthazar never intended to change her. The girls overcome and behead Balthazar, leaving him to sizzle and burn in the sunlight.
Flora soon learns Josie's father is Glenn and encourages her to create a posse of her own: more massacres follow and they turn other women into werewolf/vampire hybrids (the werevixens), with Flora encouraging Josie's turn to darkness (Glenn kept her mother as a slave to torture and rape, never knowing Josie even existed) .
as they locate a new Menhir, the good guys lead a fight to them, where Flora just abandons the baby she's turned into a vamp for nothing and in a twist? Josie finds she's not pure evil and the darkness of the Menhir horrifies her. She and Inez are mortally wounded, while Flora gleefully tries to tear open the barriers of reality to let the earth burn. Thankfully, delia stakes Flora, killing her for good, though at seemingly cost of her own life in banishing the Menhir.
Mitigating issues?
Flora's much weaker than the Koyotes listed. The novel makes it clear all sorts of wicked monsters roam the West, but the Koyotes are royalty. Glenn is described as a master of darkness, a butcher who cannot be matched or rivaled. Flora is just as bad, a serial killer with tons of nightmarish bloodshed behind her, countless acts of cruelty, a serial killer of kids and attempting to kickstart armageddon.
Josie seems to be building to the throne of big bad, but she and Inez genuinely love one another and Josie later realizes she's not her father and doesn't have it in her to destroy the world. Glenn...Glenn's going nowhere. He never knew Josie existed and according to Triana himself, he would not give one iota of a damn she did and would murder her himself with no hesitation or remorse.
Balthazar loved his mother and pales to Flora. Now, the baby she adopted? The narration points out her feelings aren't anything close to real love. She just found a new pet that she's attached to and discards it once she's bored of it.
Conclusion?
Keeper.
Fiora.
You know interesting thing I note is that in most Fur Against Fang scenarios. It's the vampires who keep, not the werewolves?
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
to Flora.
Ok, so my last EP was an epic fail. Here's another one to hopefully make up for it:
What is the Work
"Web of Deception" is the third book in a series of multi-path adventure Gamebooks based on Transformers: Animated. The plot involves Blackarachnia hiring Lockdown so she can get revenge on Optimus Prime.Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
Lockdown is shown to be as vile as his cartoon counterpart. Allying himself with Blackarachnia, Lockdown gets hired to kidnap Optimus Prime for her and straps him to a bomb that will not only mutate the Autobot leader into a techno-organic abomination but also destroy the city of Detroit in the process (or at least half of it, depending on which path you take). When the other Autobots try to interfere, Lockdown immobilizes them with polyxlyon resin, along with Sari and her friend (who is meant to be the reader), and throws them all into Lake Erie, leaving the two children to nearly drown to death. Not bothered at all by the fact that the detonation will kill thousands of people, Lockdown only betrays Blackarachnia to stop her plans when he finds out that he's being underpaid and decides to get a better deal by selling her off to a safari hunter in the Kvi Cluster.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Nope. While he does stop Blackarachnia's plan and saves thousands of people in one of the alternate endings, he didn't do it because of a Heel–Face Turn, as he wanted to get revenge on her and get a better deal from someone else.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Helping Blackarachnia kill thousands of people just so she can get revenge on Optimus and attempting to drown two children? Yeah, that's pretty heinous, even compared to his canon counterpart.
Final Verdict?
I think he's a
.
Edited by CookieMonster69 on Aug 2nd 2022 at 3:44:27 AM
What
said.
Blackarachnia a candidate?
EDIT: Incidentally, FWIW this'll make 8 for the Splatter Western series.
Edited by ACW on Aug 2nd 2022 at 3:05:25 PM
Animated Blackarachnia has a horrible backstory. She got abandoned by her friends and horrifically warped into a bioorgonic being against her will. Plus her and Optimus have a thing
Lockdown
Edited by miraculous on Aug 2nd 2022 at 12:06:01 PM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."I guess for the tropes, we could use Weird West, Gorn...any others?
Scanning through Mario High School...
to Satan. He seems like an SMG0 case—taken seriously by the narrative, but the comedic nature of the world around him severely downplays his crimes. For example, when Satan tells Mario his plan to destroy the universe and create a Hell on Earth, Mario's immediate response is "NOOOOOOOO! YOU WILL NOT HAVE SEX WITH MY GIRL FRIEND!" rather than any concern for the universe. Not to mention Satan is described as a "giant evil-doer that did doer evil", and his laugh "like a supervillain from an 80s cartoon that [the author's] dad leaves on the TV."
I would maybe recommend reading the whole fanfic and not just scanning and picking out a few specific lines. In nearly every other case they are taking his plot totally seriously. Just to give some examples
"They were horrified because Satan was back in power, and also super confused because Mona was up there with him. "What is this?" asked Daisy in a scared way. She held onto Syrup for comfort, but that didn't stop Satan so it was useless."
"Oh my god! I can't believe it...Satan has won." said Luigi, who sounded so sad and defeated. He fell to his knees and was so ready to just give up right now. "Luigi! How could you be like this? We've gotten so far, and it's not like Satan has taken over the world yet! We can't give up now! Not when the world needs us most!" Mario yelled at his brother. He was so surprised that his brother was so ready to die. "Yeah, this isn't the Luigi I know," said Peasley, who was going into boy friend mode, "Get up and be brave!" Peasley held out his hand for Luigi and helped him back up."
"We have to stop him! We can't let him do this, or we'll all be doomed!" said Mona. Mario and everyone else knew she wasn't the brightest, but she was right. Then, the Dr. came in. "Okay Mario, take your medicine!" He gave him a big red Mushroom, and he ate it so he could feel all better. Then he was allowed to leave, and everyone left the hospital. "How will we ever stop Satan from taking over high school?" asked Luigi to Mario.
There is a lot of Narm involved but the narrative is trying to genuinely take all of this seriously despite that.
When it comes to those moments there is narrative context behind them. The reason Mario is concerned about Satan having sex with Peach is that it will give birth to The Antichrist and destroy the universe. So he is concerned about it by saying that. The other ones and just meta references rather than anything in-universe.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Aug 2nd 2022 at 12:38:06 PM
@Ordeaux26
Honestly, with Mario's greatest concern over Satan's plan being the sex with Peach rather than...I don't know, the destruction of the universe, I fail to see that specific moment not being Played for Laughs. The meta references also come across as the author not wanting Satan to be taken seriously.
If he really is treated seriously enough, however, I'll switch my
to an Abstain.
Edited by ShootingStar7X on Aug 2nd 2022 at 1:09:18 AM
Otherwise known as SolemnStormcloud.

Doesn't Sigma have Maverick infection in that game which is a genuine agency breaker?
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."