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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#319876: Aug 1st 2022 at 6:09:41 PM

Sorry, missed that, no to Raaf.

Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#319877: Aug 1st 2022 at 6:19:23 PM

So uh, is this movie played as some kind of absurdist Black Comedy or not? Cause from what I am reading the movie takes everything pitch black seriously.

Bow to the Prototype
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#319878: Aug 1st 2022 at 6:20:54 PM

Like I said, I don't think it's a Black Comedy, but I do think it's more of a rant than a narrative work of fiction.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#319879: Aug 1st 2022 at 6:26:28 PM

It's not black comedy in the sense of "let's point and laugh at a bunch of cruel shit," it's black comedy in the sense of "let's deconstruct the cruel shit to make a point about audience reaction."

Either way, it's not being taken seriously, not to the extent that dramatically satisfies our standards, and for that reason I'm not supporting Paul and Peter.

Edited by Scraggle on Aug 1st 2022 at 7:30:44 AM

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#319880: Aug 1st 2022 at 6:36:50 PM

Haven’t been here for a while, on vacation in South Padre. But I’ll abstain on Raaf & Satan, but no to [tdown]Peter & Paul

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#319881: Aug 1st 2022 at 6:42:09 PM

In the meantime, how's about a potential Ramsay Bolton quote?

"She's a fine woman, your sister. I look forward to having her back in my bed. And you're all fine-looking men. My dogs are desperate to meet you. I haven't fed them for seven days, they're ravenous. I wonder which parts they'll try first. Your eyes? Your balls? We'll find out soon enough. In the morning then, bastard."

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#319882: Aug 1st 2022 at 6:45:47 PM

[tdown] P&P

[tup] Ramsay quote

It's Spooky Month!
username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#319883: Aug 1st 2022 at 6:50:44 PM

Ok I am sorry I admit I didn't read the whole effortpost for Peter & Paul. Anyway, I will abstain since I hardly remember anything about the movie but they are heinous enough and the film isn't a comedy like really at all. The only thing is that weird rewind scene which I am not sure what to make of.

k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#319884: Aug 1st 2022 at 7:05:29 PM

[tup]Ramsay quote.

Peter and Paul... what happened to Mary?

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#319885: Aug 1st 2022 at 7:29:03 PM

[tdown] tio Peter and Paul

I think the biggest issue with Satan from that mod was that he only shows up at the end of the mod in one scene. Does the Steam port expand on his role?

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
ASghhrv6ub Best Smile from Second star to the right. Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#319887: Aug 1st 2022 at 8:45:01 PM

Hey, can we crosswick Nightmare at Noon? It has a page and apparently has for a little while, but the writeup on Film: M to N isn't linked:

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#319889: Aug 2nd 2022 at 12:12:37 AM

[tup] Kaine. [tdown] Raaf, Satan, Peter and Paul.
Happy birthday, Future.

DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#319890: Aug 2nd 2022 at 12:16:42 AM

[tup] to the Lord Mictlan quote, Kaine, the Ninedenine quote, and the Ramsay Bolton quote.

[tdown] to Bertok-Raaf, Satan, Peter, and Paul.

@G-Editor: Hope you have a fun vacation in New York.

@futuremoviewriter: Happy 31st birthday.

TheWrongOne41 The Clown is in town (*he*/she/they) from Somewhere, Mexico Since: May, 2022 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
The Clown is in town (*he*/she/they)
#319891: Aug 2nd 2022 at 1:41:57 AM

Okay so, while i still think she doesn't qualify, i feel like we should rewrite the NA entry on Monaca Towa, regarding the fact that while yes she doesn't stand out, the worshiping i have only a bit of doubt.

The original EP mentioned that while she did worship them the majority of the time we saw her, in the Danganronpa 3 anime, we see her final scene basically giving up on everything, including following up on Junko's footsteps, and just sends herself into space.

I obviously could be wrong, but i think that means that she subverted her "genuine worship" that she did. Having also researched the discussions on her, most do mention the heinous standards and counter it, but none counter this point exactly.

You can watch the scene if you like.

Edited by TheWrongOne41 on Aug 2nd 2022 at 1:50:47 AM

Due to unfortunate events, i will continue to exist until further notice. (also i'm fluid now)
MinisterOfSinister From 'Ell's 'eart Oi stab at ye! from In the Hall of the Mountain King Since: Jan, 2014 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
From 'Ell's 'eart Oi stab at ye!
#319892: Aug 2nd 2022 at 4:34:56 AM

Suggestion for quote for Ultron Sigma from Marvel vs. Capcom: Infinite:

We are born of two universes — each of them imperfect, each afflicted with the cancer of organic life. From their ruins a new universe shall be forged, in the fires of the stones of reality, and of space — all life remade in our image, in steel, free from the sins of the flesh. We are Ultron Sigma... We are your god.
Ultron Sigma, opening narration of Marvel vs. Capcom: Infinite

LovelySounds Since: Apr, 2022 Relationship Status: A heart full of love
#319893: Aug 2nd 2022 at 5:27:33 AM

Okay, so I don’t think Raaf worked out, so I’ll try this other DC Comic villain.

What is the work?

Gotham by Gaslight is one of the most famous Batman elseworlds in comic book history. Set in Victoria Era London, it has Batman go up against the infamous Jack the Ripper.

Who is the candidate, and what have they done?

Jacob Packer, Jack The Ripper, was once good friends with Thomas Wayne, as they both served as surgeons during the Civil War. Unfortunately, this friendship turned sour when he meet Martha and fell in love with her, confessing his feelings only to be rejected. Out of petty spite, Jacob paid a highwayman to assassinate the Wayne family, killing both Thomas and Martha, with only a young Bruce surviving due to a swarm of bats attacking the killer.

Growing to see all women as “whores”, Jacob becomes Jack the Ripper, and begins killing women across England. Eventually, he arrives at Gotham to continue killing, but this time with the purpose of finishing what he started by framing Bruce for the murders and having him executed. Going in a killing spree as Jack, Packer then leaves his gloves and murder weapon at Wayne Manor, getting Bruce locked away at Arkham and waiting execution. Thankfully, Bruce is able to escape by switching places with Alfred and confronts Packer, who had been trying to lie low but couldn’t stop his bloodlust, from killing another woman.

Taking Packer to his parents’ grave, Packer reveals his motives and when the police arrive, fesses up to all the murders he committed in not only London, but also in Paris. He then tries to spitefully kill Bruce, but is shot dead by Gordon.

Mitigating Factors?

No. His Freudian Excuse is weak and sexist. While from his perspective Martha laughed at him. It’s implied she just simply rejected him and he took it poorly. Either way, harsh rejection or not, this is no excuse to go butchering women.

On the other, much more worrying hand, Jacob is nuts. He claims he sees women as whores who laugh at him, but this just comes off more as sexism and he shows far too much planning and genuine spite to 100% crazy and delusional.

Heinousness?

Easy sets it. He killed way more women then Jack the Ripper did in real life, and is an incredibly personal foe to Bruce, paying to have his parents killed and framing him to be executed.

Now, the sequel story, Master of the Future, has Alexandre Le Roi, who attempts to destroy all of Gotham with solar panels. However, he’s a WIE who wants to stop pollution and has an entire floating zeppelin on his side, Packer is just some bitter old man with a knife. So while I’ll say while in scope he out heinousnesses him, Packer lacks the resources and ambition of Alexandre, simply wanting to slay women, so it’s fine.

Verdict?

I’m much more confident here then with Raaf. Yes.

Draxterrus An Eldritch Troper Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
An Eldritch Troper
#319894: Aug 2nd 2022 at 7:06:10 AM

No to Jack the Ripper. Not sold when Jack describes seeing Martha everywhere and always hearing her laugh even after she's dead. He says that sound drives him insane and he kills so he can stop it. However, he still can't get rid of that influence after several murders.

That is some psychological damage that can't simply be brushed aside when deciding if a mitigating factor holds up.

Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#319895: Aug 2nd 2022 at 8:45:25 AM

Withdrawing the post for now per Snoke's suggestion.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Aug 2nd 2022 at 9:11:27 AM

LovelySounds Since: Apr, 2022 Relationship Status: A heart full of love
Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#319897: Aug 2nd 2022 at 9:02:21 AM

Okay I sent this to Ordeux on DM but, while I think William counts, there is info missing from the post(Likely not intentionally) namely as it seems to focus just on the FNAF section when Secret 4 Studio is a Shared Universe channel. While I think Will crosses it, the standard is worth talking about more because there are a ton of other horrible villains. And the other vids steadily expand on the Lore and what exactly William is and why his kind were doing what they were doing.

I would love to collab on this, if you wanted to, and just send the info to you for a more 'full' post and such. I have thought on doing this version of Will for a while and would love to help with it

Edited by Snoketrope on Aug 2nd 2022 at 9:07:35 AM

Bow to the Prototype
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#319898: Aug 2nd 2022 at 10:04:40 AM

I brought Jacob Packer up years ago, he was voted down, as I recall because his hallucinations of Martha indicated he may be too crazy to count.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
MinisterOfSinister From 'Ell's 'eart Oi stab at ye! from In the Hall of the Mountain King Since: Jan, 2014 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
From 'Ell's 'eart Oi stab at ye!
#319900: Aug 2nd 2022 at 10:54:45 AM

[tdown] Jacob Parker. Plausible Hate Sink but not a CM sadly.

Also is Ultron the only one considered a CM in Marvel vs. Capcom Infinite, or could a case be made for him and Sigma being there given they spend most of the game as one person and you never see any sign that Sigma is not okay with what Ultron Sigma does or is even Fighting from the Inside? Apart from Ultron merging with him by force they seem pretty in sync with each other.


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