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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Bariton3 Since: Dec, 2021 Relationship Status: Awaiting my mail-order bride
#319727: Jul 30th 2022 at 7:51:32 AM

And now, for my next candidate from Changeling.

Who is Dr. Jonathan Steele?

Dr. Johnathan Steele is the corrupt head of Los Angeles County Hospital's psychopathic ward, a Bedlam House where patients are regularly abused by the staff, all under his watch. The thing is, most of the inmates are actually perfectly sane; they just witnessed something inconvenient to the LAPD, and were locked up without trial or prior examination because societal attitudes on how "hysterical" women meant it was easy to do. Steele knows this, and fully intends to keep the women under his care locked up for the rest of their lives. Should any of his patients defy him or simply annoy him, Steele has them tortured by subjecting them to electroshock therapy; angering him enough times results in him ordering that they be given electroshock on a daily basis. One woman is shown to have been left catatonic by the constant electric shocks.

When Christine Collins is admitted to the asylum, Steele taunts her by twisting her words to make her sound insane before unsubtly threatening to make sure she is locked up permanently unless she signs a statement declaring that she lied about the LAPD's misconduct. When she refuses, he continues to hound her. When she refuses again, Steele orders her sedated out of spite and has her violently restrained and force fed pills; when her friend Carol Dexter attempts to help her, Steele slaps Carol and taunts her over her past as a prostitute. When Carol slaps him in return, he orders her to be subjected to electroshock and had her shocked until she passed out.

After Christine continues to refuse to sign, Steele once again demands she sign the statement while threatening to have her sent to electroshock daily. When she refuses and understandably tells him "Fuck you", Steele spitefully orders her to be sent to electroshock. However, Christine's friend Rev. Gustav Briegleb and his followers enter the building demanding she be set free, after news of Gordon Northcott's child murders and his kidnapping of Walter has become public knowledge. Steele agrees, but tries one last time to bait Christine to sign the statement out of spite. When she refuses, he lets her leave and sulks off.

Does he have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Nope. Steele's just a sadistic, petty bully who likes tormenting his patients. Even when he's given concrete proof that Christine was telling the truth, he's just disappointed that he has to let her go and that he won't be able to break her spirit. Though he does let her go, it's only out of pragmatism; he has no legal right to keep her in the asylum, and the now widely publicized nature of Christine's plight and the LAPD's bungling of the case is so well-known that keeping her there would result in serious consequences. Even then, he still makes one last attempt to screw her over out of spite.

Does he meet the Heinousness Standard?

Changeling has a pretty high heinousness standard. Davis, as previously mentioned, had countless people killed by the Gun Squad. Captain Jones sends an innocent woman to a mental asylum and actively covers up a police investigation to hide his own incompetence. And Northcott is a brutal serial killer who preyed on children. However, while Steele is just a cog in the machine, he goes above and beyond with his sadism. Jones and Dr. Earl Tarr (a child psychologist he hired to discredit Christine) are both on the same level as Steele, cogs in the machine that is the LAPD. However, while Jones and Tarr are undeniably scumbags, they don't go out of their way to be unnecessarily sadistic and do only what they need to do to cover up the LAPD's error. Steele, meanwhile, genuinely enjoys tormenting the patients under his care and breaking them down, and if anyone stands up against him too much he'll subject them to electroshock enough times to destroy their minds and leave them as vegetables. There's no indication that his sadism is on the orders of the LAPD, either. He's told to keep the patients out of the way and in some cases get them to renounce their testimonies. The barbaric way he goes about it is all him, and his abhorrent and blatant sadism is shown to be unique enough for him to stand out.

Final Verdict?

Yes.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#319728: Jul 30th 2022 at 8:13:31 AM

Yes to him. All that happens is he lets her leave and then just sulks off?

Bariton3 Since: Dec, 2021 Relationship Status: Awaiting my mail-order bride
#319729: Jul 30th 2022 at 8:21:28 AM

He tries to get her to sign the form admitting that she lied about the LAPD's misconduct without letting her know that she's being released. It's only after she refuses that he lets her go, since he doesn't want to face legal action and doing anything to her would cause a lot of serious consequences for him, since she had become a local celebrity with thousands of supporters by that point. He'd rather cut his losses by letting her go than draw even more trouble.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Bariton3 Since: Dec, 2021 Relationship Status: Awaiting my mail-order bride
#319731: Jul 30th 2022 at 8:25:40 AM

Yup. Some of his patients are released on a court order later, but Steele gets away with everything and keeps his job.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#319732: Jul 30th 2022 at 9:15:46 AM

[tup]Steele.

First for Denis O'Hare?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#319733: Jul 30th 2022 at 9:31:47 AM

Sure to Steele and a thing I noticed last night...

  • Babylon: Ai Magase is a wicked temptress and the biblical Whore of Babylon. With a voice which allows her to bend her victims to her will, Magase, at age 15, induces several of her male classmates with Generalized Anxiety Disorder. Later hired by Kaiku Itsuki to push the suicide law, Magase kills Shin Inaba when he was conducting research in the "Nyux" drug, and Fumio Atsuhiko when he went to investigate. After driving over sixty people to suicide, Magase dwindles down the number of Zen Seizaki's team, and kidnaps Hiasa Sekuro so she could film her grisly murder to further torment Seizaki. Setting her sights on US President Alexander W. Wood, Magase corrupts his mind in a bid of making him jump off a roof to legitimize the suicide law.

No issue with the writeup itself but it doesn't do anything with people being given "Generalized Anxiety Disorder". For a villain who's got a Compelling Voice that's extremely mild villainy compared to the rest of her writeup. I'm advocating we cut that bit and get right to what makes her count:

  • Babylon: Ai Magase is a wicked temptress and the biblical Whore of Babylon. With a voice which allows her to bend her victims to her will, Magase is hired by Kaiku Itsuki to push the suicide law, Magase kills Shin Inaba when he was conducting research in the "Nyux" drug, and Fumio Atsuhiko when he went to investigate. After driving over sixty people to suicide, Magase dwindles down the number of Zen Seizaki's team, and kidnaps Hiasa Sekuro so she could film her grisly murder to further torment Seizaki. Setting her sights on US President Alexander W. Wood, Magase corrupts his mind in a bid of making him jump off a roof to legitimize the suicide law.

Edited by 43110 on Jul 30th 2022 at 12:33:59 PM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#319734: Jul 30th 2022 at 9:42:58 AM

Sure. The show itself does a bad job at depicting that disorder aside from other issues regarding how it tackles suicide, so I am fine with that slight change.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#319735: Jul 30th 2022 at 9:51:10 AM

Cool, if that's all that's going on with Magase infecting them I think it's best leaving out the minor crime.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#319736: Jul 30th 2022 at 9:57:32 AM

At best, it's depicted as her mind raping them, but if it's too minor, it can be left out. But as the one who did the writeup, I permit its omission.

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#319738: Jul 30th 2022 at 10:42:43 AM

[tup] to Steele

[down] feel better Media

Edited by G-Editor on Jul 30th 2022 at 2:31:03 PM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Mediawatcher Since: Dec, 2015
#319739: Jul 30th 2022 at 10:53:30 AM

[tup] Steele

Bad news, I just tested positive for Covid, it sucks

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#319740: Jul 30th 2022 at 10:58:45 AM

Oof, take care.

For Magase, is Compelling Voice accurate? I think I have an extra pothole.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
#319742: Jul 30th 2022 at 11:21:31 AM

Best of luck Mediawatcher. Hope you feel better.

Bariton3 Since: Dec, 2021 Relationship Status: Awaiting my mail-order bride
#319743: Jul 30th 2022 at 11:21:59 AM

Hang in there, Mediawatcher. I've gotten COVID before and I know how much it sucks. Feel better soon.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#319744: Jul 30th 2022 at 11:30:15 AM

[tup] Steele

Feel better, Media.

Guys, I need more votes on my Hitomi quote. It's been over a week, with me asking several times, and so far only Unknown has responded.

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#319745: Jul 30th 2022 at 11:43:50 AM

[tup] Hitomi quote

It's Spooky Month!
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#319746: Jul 30th 2022 at 11:45:54 AM

[tup]Hitomi quote

Get better soon Media;

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
WatTambor Since: Oct, 2020
#319747: Jul 30th 2022 at 11:48:42 AM

I like the quote.

Feel better, Media.

[tup] Davis, Brenner and Steele.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#319748: Jul 30th 2022 at 11:50:22 AM

Sure to the quote. Also works for It's All About Me.

Pending stuff:

Scraggle, you wanna get Kevin so I can request the page be locked this week along with the Suda page?

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#319749: Jul 30th 2022 at 11:53:56 AM

Btw is this write-up off sounding or is it just me? 88 Minutes

  • Complete Monster: Jon Forster is a convicted Serial Killer who murdered and raped at least five women by tying them upside down and torturing them to death. Arrested after attempting to murder one of his victim's siblings by a forensic psychiatrist, Dr. Jack Gramm, Forster pleads innocence and acted as if he was incriminated by the forensics. However, Forster ordered his attorneys to grisly murder other innocent women, and intends to incriminate Gramm for the murders solely to spite him.

Edited by miraculous on Jul 30th 2022 at 11:54:37 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP

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