During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
duo from a really dumb episode
My issue is more when it’s clear beyond a doubt villains are intended to care for each other by circumstance and we’re just playing to the “Well they technically never say love” line of thinking. With this candidate I can’t quite tell, if they look loving in the photo sure cut but I don’t think their existence alone means he’s gotta go.
Lizzid people!
Was it more the wife wanted revenge, but it was left unclear that he loved her back? Like if it's completely one-sided on her part, that is different.
After all, we have cases of villains wanting to avenge the CM, but the CM never displayed care towards them.
Edited by AustinDR on Jul 12th 2022 at 2:52:58 AM
I'm gonna look for the episode (or at least a clip of it) to verify myself.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
It’s on Paramount + if you have it. Otherwise you can buy it online
RIP Toriyama
Earnestly not seeing this worth a cut, tbh. Stone just being shown to have taken happy photos with his wife then never interacting with her otherwise doesn't fill me with confidence that it's a flat out redeeming feature. Someone like Stuart Babcock from Monk has some level of subtext to further the thinking that he cares about his current wife...if all we've got with Stone is "a few images of him smiling in photos with his wife who wants to avenge him during a debrief", I'm not personally leaning cut.
- East of Eden: Mr. Edwards is a ruthless whoremaster who manages to upstage Cathy Ames herself in depravity. Running a variety of prostitution rings across the country that he keeps in line by routinely beating his workers bloody and threatening them with homelessness or jail time to force them into servitude, Edwards forbids his women from becoming pregnant under penalty of being kicked out or having haphazard, oftentimes lethal abortions performed on them. Edwards also hides the fact that most of his workers carry sexual diseases, constantly shuffling them around so that the hapless men they transmit the infections to can never find the guilty parties. When he falls under Cathy's seductive spell, Edwards comes to begrudge the woman for making him feel genuine love, and plans to blackmail her into servitude as his personal whore to overcome his emotions towards her; instead, he ends up viciously beating her to within an inch of her life and leaving her for dead, Edwards rebuking love as a weakness and promising to never feel it towards anyone again.
- The Tale of the Fall of Gondolin: Meglin, the original iteration of Maeglin, lacks his future counterpart's redeeming features to instead be a selfish, cowardly brute. A Gnome who pines after his own royal cousin Idril as much for lust as for the power she has, Meglin harbors vile thoughts of taking Idril as his own and murdering her lover Tuor. Meglin turns the tables on his captors when he is taken by the evil Melko's forces, becoming a spy for Melko and serving the entire city of Gondolin to his army on a platter to be utterly decimated and its population wiped out, all in exchange for Idril and a position in Melko's empire. To bring in his victory as Gondolin burns around him thanks to his machinations, Meglin tries to force Idril to watch as he burns her young son alive, planning to then force himself on her to consummate his lifelong desire to have Idril as his wife.
- The Transporter 2: Gianni Chellini is an unscrupulous Columbian crime lord who hires his ruthlessness out to the highest bidder. Contracted to halt the drug fighting policies of Jefferson Billings and other politicians, Chellini unleashes the murderous Lola to kidnap Jefferson's son Jack and slaughter anyone in her way. Chellini then threatens the young Jack with a dismemberment before infecting the boy with a lethal virus and returning him to his parents "unharmed." Chellini intends for Jack to spread the virus to his parents and everyone attending the upcoming drug control conference, Chellini willing to see potential hundreds of innocents die from his plan so long as he gets paid.
- Brain Boy: The unnamed psychic Reader possessing General Emil Ricorta values nothing more than the ability to torture, rape and kill whoever and whenever he likes. As "Ricorta", he oversees a massive, murderous dictatorship in which thousands of people are thrown into concentration camps and executed in swathes, all as he preys upon countless children to fulfill his disgusting, pedophilic desires. Using his mind control abilities to regularly force innocents to kill themselves and those around them at his behest, "Ricorta" uses hundreds of civilians as human shields in one of his fights with Price, and mind rapes the superhero with images of the atrocities committed under "Ricorta's" banner. When he runs out of usage for Ricorta, the Reader bodyjacks one of his closest allies and frames the real Ricorta for everything, forcing him to commit suicide as the Reader wanders off to perpetrate even more crimes, threatening all the while to kill untold numbers of innocents if Price dares to halt his hedonistic lifestyle.
Edited by Ravok on Jul 12th 2022 at 2:53:34 AM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
to Bearded Man, Von Ghastly, Nicholas Pereno, Brother Marino and Brother Francisco.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to the Count.
Yeah if that's all it is, I'm leaning to keep Mr Stone.
Edited by MGD107 on Jul 12th 2022 at 2:54:07 AM
Goku Black
I don't really mind keeping him either if that's it?
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
I won't argue or push further, but count me as abstain on Stone. I mean if they're smiling in the photos, without clarification on how he sees his wife, or if Stone is the kind of guy who keeps up appearances, that's usually enough to imply affection for me.
Than again may be my own standards talking; as I said yesterday, I took a rapist who'd otherwise keep off my considerations for talking with his accomplice about seeing a game.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Okay I decided to take another look of Amelia’s briefing since it had been years since I saw that episode so I need a refresher. Thankfully I don’t see them any pictures of them together. Just separate pictures of them with Stone’s picture showing up at the end. If you want to look for the episode anyway to clarify things Beast, that’s totally your call, but from where I’m standing now we can keep Stone. Apologies for worrying the forum. I just thought that if Terry gets cut because of pictures with his wife, I thought to take another look at Stone due to similar circumstances
Edited by G-Editor on Jul 12th 2022 at 12:10:19 AM
Goku Black
Okay definite keep than.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Professor Gigachad
I will say Keep then.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yeah, definite keep if we don't even see any of them together.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Keep Mr. Stone
IPP Wick Check created.
Keep Stone.
Lizzid people!
Sure, keep.
Gentle Laborer
Gosh... It has been a while since my last EP.
What is the work? Reincarnation is a semi-decent J-Horror from the same director of Ju-on and Marebito. The story focuses on the troubled production of Memories, an ambitious Film Within a Film that dramatizes the infamous Gunma Hotel Murders—among the actors and actresses is Nagisa Sugiura, a timid loner haunted by visions of the massacre and its victims. Soon enough, it becomes apparent that Nagisa and a few others are the reincarnated counterparts of those involved in the massacre. We're going to be discussing Nagisa's own counterpart.
Who is he? Hiding behind the Mask of Sanity of a normal college professor and loving family man, Norihasa Omori was secretly an emotionless psychopath who became obsessed with the concept of reincarnation and desperately wanted to prove its legitimacy, believing that the human body was nothing but a temporary vessel for the immortal consciouness. To put his theory to the test, Omori decided one day to use his own children as guinea pigs—he bought a 8mm camcorder and went to a hotel with his family during what was meant to be an innocent trip, Omori then lured his children to the bathroom and tried to film himself stabbing them to death, coldly telling the kids that would simply "see them again" in his next life. Omori's wife caught him in the act and gave the kids enough time to escape, Omori then injured her to such an extent that she was left in a coma.
After hanging a maid for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, Omori grabbed his knife and rampaged through the hotel For the Evulz, slaughtering eight more random guests and members of the staff while still filming the whole thing. Omori unfortunately managed to reach his kids and murdered them before stabbing himself in the throat. After his reincarnated counterpart is ultimately committed to a mental hospital, Omori's own consciouness returns and performs a Split-Personality Takeover, taking the opportunity to give a sinister smile to the spirits of his children as one last middle-finger to them—Omori finally has the answer to the question that made him kill eleven people. He'll have to spend the rest of his new life in a straight-jacket but he's okay with it, so Karma Houdini... I guess?
Heinous? Casually murdered his own children and other innocent people to prove a scientific hypothesis that could have been incorrect, this dude passes with flying colors.
Mitigating Factors? All the visions and flashbacks portray him as a callous mass murderer who treated his own research as something more important than the lives of others, his family included.
Conclusion?
Ultimate Moral Compass
Norihasa
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Omori
Keep Stone
The fake monks and Omori.
to Norihasa
Nicholas, Marino, Francisco and Omori
Keep Stone
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Norihasa Omori
Brothers Marino and Francisco
Nicholas Pereno
"Well, let's make absolutely certain. Little moments can be easy to miss"
...yeah...about that...I have a cut to be done.
Hayato from the short manga Tomogui.
His last words are a pitiful "sorry" after being brualized by Kazuyoshi. The words were legit too small and in the context, you could even forget it, especially as the rest of the chapter is about Hayato's victims complaining about how he ruined their lives.
But...the Sorry comes after Hayato is given a brutal Break the Haughty by Kazuyoshi and by the moment where he says his last sorry, he legit has nothing to win (he is letally injured and covered with fuel that will burn him).
So, yeah, Cut.
Watch me destroying my country
Honestly, that doesn't seem anywhere CLOSE to enough to cut.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts