During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
@ACW: Just about everywhere I look into this movie, including This Very Wiki says that the Bearded Man is the ringleader. Within the movie itself, they mention a middle man connecting them to the larger operations, which is hinted to be the Bearded Man; even if he was just their partner, and not just the head of the larger ring, he is still overseeing their operations as their "neighbor".
Edited by Beast on Jul 11th 2022 at 4:28:48 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."@Scraggle I was afraid of this kind of reaction, still I should point out that the comic is probably too lighthearted to have the villains raping the villagers (the most we get is a mention of an attempted rape that has taken place in the past, but we don't see anything and it explicitly failed). Also, I should add that the soldiers probably can't kill too many villagers since they need them to pay future taxes.
to Bearded Man and Van Ghastly.
Yes to Ghastly.
Image suggestion of Stefan Amaris from BattleTech for Sandbox.Monster Tabletop Games.
Good image,a nd yes to Scraggle's there.
Vinland Saga I know and love. Nobody keeps.King Sweyn Forkbeard is nasty, but cares for his younger son, and is debatably out-classed in heinousness. Askeladd is the nastiest otherwise, being a murderous mercenary who has led countless numbers of raids that lead to Rape, Pillage, and Burn before he at one point has an entire village slaughtered. He loved his mother, cares deeply for his best friend Bjorn and inwardly despises the wanton slaughter of the Vikings.
Bearded Man, Von Ghastly, Stefan image
The Count
For the Stefan image could this be a possible caption (I found it on the franchise that he's from wiki)
Or is that a bit too long?
EDIT: I think this one may be better apparently he says it? (Also from the wiki)
Edited by WetFlannels on Jul 11th 2022 at 1:07:52 PM
What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
to Von
Anymore input on Stone
whether we should cut or keep him?
So far only pyparu vote to cut him while acw voted to keep him and no one else has pitched in yet
Edited by G-Editor on Jul 11th 2022 at 2:05:45 AM
My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
to the Sarvel Ever-Hungry quote, Prince, Rashay, Darya Ugreyeva, Colonel Ivan “the Terrible” Pedavich, Mr. Lee, the Ajax video, "Bearded Man", Von Ghastly, and the Stefan Amaris image.
to Count Hégeulard. Cut Terry and Margo Vickey, as well as Mr. Stone.
@Bullman: Sorry to hear that and I hope you recover soon.
Edited by DrUnknown on Jul 11th 2022 at 6:22:54 AM
Ghastly.
Writeup for Darya:
- Trace, episode "The Dead Wedding": Darya Ugreyeva is Oleg Muranov's girlfriend. When he dumps her, she decides to frame him for mass murder in revenge: he has delivered several boxes of wine to a lavish wedding, so Darya substitutes part of the bottles with poisoned fake wine, killing thirty-four people. Seven years later, posing as a schoolgirl, she is tracked down by Oleg's stepsister and kills both her and a policeman who tries to help her. Fearing the FES are on her trail, Darya tries to escape again, and to ensure she would Leave No Witnesses, she poisons the berry drink at the school canteen, landing several staff members in intensive care and setting the scene for the death of hundreds of children.
Edited by AutumnLeaves on Jul 11th 2022 at 4:34:14 PM
Okay this is a LONG one but bare with me. It’s a 62 episode show and this guy does a LOT over those 62 episodes.
What is the Work La Esclava Blanca, a Columbian Telenovela about Victoria Quintero. It's set in the 1800s, during the time when Columbia was still a nation with slavery. Victoria's parents are white landowners who were murdered by a rival landowner; Victoria herself survives and is raised in a palenque by the escaped slaves. When the Palenque is stormed and the slaves recaptured, Victoria escapes and decides to return to free her family, getting involved in the brewing revolution in Santa Marta.
Now it’s actually NOT a bad show and manages to avoid falling too hard into the White Savior narrative (Victoria's black lover Miguel is the one spearheading the revolution and even many of the more sympathetic white characters have to be repeatedly challenged in order to grow out of their bigotry) but that’s besides the point.
Victoria faces a lot of obstacles, the main one being our candidate.
Who is He?
Nicholas Pereno, the Big Bad of the series and a walking embodiment of everything wrong with slavery.
What has he done?
When the story starts (in 1821) Nicholas is a struggling landowner trying to import slaves to help his plantation. Don Diego, Victoria's father, despite being a slave owner himself is relatively progressive and informs the military about Nicholas's slave ship, persuading them to intercept it. Nicholas hurriedly has his minion head to the ship, leading to them trying to get rid of the evidence by forcing the slaves to swim to shore. Since many of them are exhausted, malnourished, and bound a lot of them end up drowning, with the few survivors being repossessed by the government (we see the corpses floating in the bay).
Nicholas is infuriated by this and so bribes Diego's foreman Morales into burning Diego's hacienda the Eden down with Diego and his wife inside. Morales has a crisis of conscience and spares Diego's infant daughter Victoria, allowing one of the slaves to take her away. Nicholas then proceeds to use the burning to say "see, look at how ungrateful those savages are. We need slavery and a firmer hand." He then arranges to acquire the remains of the Eden cheaply, with only Morales and Father Octavio (a priest Morales confessed to) knowing his dark secret. He also rapes his wife, resulting in his daughter Isabelita being born (his first wife dies giving birth).
About a decade passes, during which Victoria has been raised among the Maroons in a Palenque (a free community of escaped Blacks). Victoria and Miquel (Nicholas's son with one of his slaves) go into town and are seen; Nicholas learns that Morales botched the job and orders him to finish it, using the attack on the Palenque as cover. Victoria escapes, but again Morales lies and so Nicholas is in the dark. Another ten years or so passes, and Nicholas seeks marriage with a Spanish aristocrat in order to gain titles and the connections that go with it. By sheer coincidence the woman he chooses (the Marquess de Bracamont) happens to have ties with the convent where Victoria has been sent and so Victoria decides to impersonate the Marquess in order to save her family.
As all of this is going on Nicholas has gotten involved with a cabal of rich white men. See, the Law of the Wombs (which allows 18 year old slaves a shot at gaining freedom) is starting to take effect, and the rich white guys don't like this. So they've decided to murder Free Blacks and Slaves on the verge of gaining freedom to scare them into line. When his daughter gets upset by her personal slave Rosita wanting to seek freedom, Nicholas offers her up to the conspiracy as a sign of his commitment, leading to the poor girl being viciously murdered and her corpse mutilated.
The conspiracy then targets Miguel, with them being especially furious after Miguel injures one of them (Jaime Lopez); now Miguel is actually Nicholas's son with a slave, who asked him to take care of their son. Nicholas actually DOES try to honor the promise, saving Miguel and faking his death before marrying Victoria (who by now has learned her full past and wants revenge). Miguel returns and publicly accuses Jaime of murder with the help of a sympathetic lawyer (Restrepo), and against the odds he's able to win the case by goading Jaime into becoming so angry he lashes out and admits his guilt. This makes Miguel a symbol and also starts inspiring other free black people to start expressing more discontent with the system.
Nicholas however is angry that Miguel defied the system and won, and so when Miguel tries to get his freedom he not only refuses but inflicts extreme cruelties on him (starving him, throwing him in a dark hole to suffer). He also tells him that while he might be his son, he is still ultimately just a slave. In addition, he promises to Jaime's father that he'll help Jaime escape prison and actually does get him out..... only to stab him in the back and throw his body into the ocean, taunting him about how he couldn't keep his mouth shut.
Now Nicholas has a LOT of various acts of assholery after this (selling his mother's favorite slave to make money and because she held out information when he asked her to spy for him, having his daughter locked in an asylum when she sees him committing murder by setting his dogs on a slave) after this, but then we get into the final seven episodes. After an attempted mass breakout from the slaves (which saw many of them massacred by Granados and his men) Miguel and some of the other survivors have fled into hills. Tomas meanwhile is captured and brutally tortured, even loosing his eye in the process. Nicholas also manipulates the General (who lost his son in the breakout) into whipping Tomas.
Soon after the REAL Marquess that Victoria impersonated (as well as a nun from the convent) have arrived in Colombia, and the Marquess spills the beans about how she’s being impersonated. Nicholas (who has been informed by Morales about his second failure) pieces the puzzle together and realizes who Victoria truly is (as well as the fact that she came back for Miguel). Nicholas proceeds to brutally kill both the Marquess AND the nun before framing Father Octavio for it, going completely off the deep end and even raping Victoria out of spite and obsession (and to twist the knife arranging to sell Tomas to the mines despite knowing he'll die in his weak condition.) Miguel and his followers meanwhile corner Governor Marquez in the mountains and send him back with a message demanding amnesty; there are also numerous acts of defiance, with drinking water being contaminated and tools being broken. Nicholas finds out about the slaves wanting to negotiate, so he subtly poisons General Marquez. It doesn’t kill him, but it does force him to retire, and since the governor still thinks Nicholas is a friend he gives him the position, with Nicholas “reluctantly” accepting.
Now in charge, he decides to lure his son into a trap by pretending to be open to negotiations. Miguel sees it but also realizes he’ll never have another opportunity to do things peacefully and so there’s a meeting in the woods where one of the participants says they can enact a local law and send it to the capital. Nicholas pretends to be on board with this and it’s agreed that the signing will be at the Eden Plantation (really he plans to have Miguel killed at the agreement and make it look like Miguel was planning to kill him, thus allowing slavery to remain entrenched). Nicholas arrives home to find Victoria and her friends trying to escape, prompting both of them to lay their cards on the table and reveal what they both know about the other. He than has them locked up, telling Victoria that she belongs to him and revealing his plans to kill Miguel in front of her just to hurt her. Miguel arrives and Nicholas brings Victoria to watch the show. He tries to spring the trap, but since Miguel expected treachery this just triggers a Mexican standoff. Miguel reveals he had some of his followers grab Nicholas’s mother hoping to use her as a hostage to force Nicholas to yield and release Victoria and the others. Nicholas than orders his men to shoot anyway, and when Felipe calls him out on it Nicholas shoots him as well, giving Victoria and Miguel an opening to overpower him and escape with the others.
Nicholas is furious and orders his men to open fire, but they hesitate and so Nicholas decides to run after them himself. As luck would have it Miguel and Victoria have decided to go after him, and we get a final confrontation with Nicholas pursuing Victoria into a river. Miguel gets the drop on him and they have a final battle, Nicholas furiously denouncing any family ties. Miguel overpowers him, beating him into submission and leaving him floating in the river. At this point Nicholas’s luck has finally run out; Father Octavio, with prompting from Tomas and Mother Lorenza has finally revealed the truth of what happened all those years ago (how Nicholas burned the Eden down and tried to kill Victoria, how Father Octavio smuggled her to Spain), and as such the authorities arrest him. Nicholas wakes up in prison, and soon afterwards is tried in court. He’s found guilty….and ultimately sentenced to 30 years in the mines. Nicholas is horrified at being given the same punishment as a slave, but can only be led away. We last see him being whipped in the mines for not working hard enough.
Heinous Standard?
Ultimately sets it. This is a show about slavery, and it does NOT shy away from how awful the institution truly was. That said, Nicholas's crimes are the most far reaching directly and indirectly. The slave ship at the beginning is ultimately his fault, and his murder of the Quinteros helps kill a lot of talk for reform for twenty years, setting the stage for a lot of the other villain's crimes. He's also the most powerful slave owner in the region, meaning that he has the most resources to inflict cruelty on his slaves and others.
As for competition the only people who come close to his level of cruelty are the other members of the cabal (Arturo and Jaime Lopez, Damien Caicedo and Francisco Grandos.) Of these guys Granados is the only one who may count (he commits a lot of similar crimes to Nicholas and also independently attacks the slaves when they stage their breakout, which leads to a massacre on the beach). Jaime and Arturo genuinely care for each other even if Jaime’s a loathsome little shit and Caicedo is otherwise just an asshole landowner.
In all likelihood I'll do a writeup on Granados.
Mitigating Qualities? Freudian Excuse
It IS mentioned that Nicholas’s father beat him and when we first meet him he’s very clearly resentful of how poor the plantation is. He also expresses resentment that his mother never took the chance to poison his father despite having opportunity.
Interestingly he starts out with one mitigating quality. When Nicholas's lover asks him to take care of their son he DOES actually do so for ten years, giving him easier jobs and keeping him away from hardship. He even saves him from his compatriots, which he didn’t have to do. Thing is, when Miguel starts to defy the system and become a symbol of resistance, he throws that promise out the window and starts abusing him; when the climax comes he's entirely willing to kill Miguel and makes a good attempt of it. So it’s safe to say he throws that quality away by the end.
Otherwise though he has nothing. His relationship with his daughter is also controlling, with him seeing Isabelita is little more than property (he even throws her in an asylum when she witnesses him commit murder and tries to bully a doctor from training her even though she's passionate about it AND good at it), and his "feelings" for Victoria and even his former lover Sara are ultimately controlling and possessive (and in Victoria's case involve outright rape). It should also be noted that he betrays and/or murders literally EVERYONE he allies with at some point, be it Morales or other members of the conspiracy to even his own mother.
Does he count?
By the end, I’m pretty sure he does but I’ll leave it to you to decide.
Edited by LordYAM on Jul 12th 2022 at 12:59:03 PM
That was a problem but the sheer amount of cruelty the guy got up to was pretty damn impressive. I actually had to leave out a few smaller things believe it or not.
Edit: I did a little bit. It was hard because again the sheer volume of this guy's crimes is rather impressive.
Edited by LordYAM on Jul 12th 2022 at 12:48:14 PM

Yeah can we maybe talk about The Count more his list of deeds are pretty underwhelming especially compared to the current keeper. I am saying
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jul 11th 2022 at 4:18:03 AM