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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#318001: Jul 11th 2022 at 2:09:26 PM

So ACW for the version of Rashay I was thinking of doing it like this.

Not sure where I should slot it though.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jul 11th 2022 at 2:11:16 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#318002: Jul 11th 2022 at 2:10:07 PM

Cut Terry and Margo… I think it’s clear enough what the film is going for with both (good catch Beast!), yes to the A-Team stuff and Lee!

Mimic45 Since: Feb, 2017
#318003: Jul 11th 2022 at 2:11:37 PM

Hi everyone, it's me again.

After Mendoza, I have another candidate from a French comic book by the same author as De Cape et de Crocs (don't worry, this one will be much shorter than last time). The character is more or less the equivalent of Mendoza, but this one might be a bit more contentious.

What's The Work?

Garulfo is a French comic book that takes place during the Middle Ages and is an Affectionate Parody of fairy tales. The story is about Garulfo, a frog who is transformed into a Prince and gets to experience the world of men, only to find out that it's not really as great as he imagined.

Who Is He and What Has He Done?

Let me introduce you to the cruel and despicable Count Hégeulard de Guezberques. Even though he only appears in the first two of the six volumes, he can be considered the closest thing to the main villain of the story.

Volume 1

Count Hégeulard is seen for the first time when "Prince" Garulfo comes to meet the King. At first, the Count doesn't seem that bad of a guy, as he protects Garulfo when the King orders his execution because of his disrespectful behavior, and later he invites the "Prince" to participate in one of his hunts. However, Hégeulard reveals his true colors during the said hunt, in which he relentlessly chases an unfortunate wolf, sends his dogs to savagely maul him, and then goes to finish the injured animal by violently striking him with his spear while smiling cruelly. After that, he sets a large wolf trap in order to kill the female wolf as well when she'll eventually come to approach the corpse of her mate, all the while describing in an incredibly sadistic way how she will suffer for hours before expiring.

Despite his own distaste for wolves, Garulfo is nothing short of horrified and promptly leaves. Unfortunately, he crosses paths with Count Hégeulard again when he and his men attack the local village to collect money, as he also has the role of tax collector. Hégeulard has his men brutally manhandle the poor villagers, not even sparing the children, while looking disturbingly happy to cause all this pain. Shocked, Garulfo declares that he will report his cruel behavior to the King, and the Count, who has long coveted the throne and doesn't appreciate that this "Prince" could jeopardize his plans, orders his men to go and discreetly assassinate him before he arrives at the castle.

Volume 2

Hégeulard's right-hand man informs him that they killed Garulfo by throwing him off a cliff, but shortly after the Count sees Garulfo alive and well arriving at the castle. Furious, he attacks his right-hand man, puts a blade to his throat and prepares to kill him, but changes his mind at the last moment. He then decides to take care of Garulfo himself and tries to poison his wine during the evening, but it fails. At night, Hégeulard breaks into Garulfo's room to stab him to death, only to be interrupted by an old maid who also wants to kill him, and then by the King who has realized that Garulfo is not a real prince and wants him executed.

Garulfo manages to escape from the castle with Pipa, a servant friend of his, but Count Hégeulard catches them near the place where the wolf was killed, and prepares to kill them while laughing maniacally. Luckily, Garulfo manages to get hold of a sword that Hégeulard forgot during the hunt and confronts the Count in a duel, during which Hégeulard tries constantly to use treacherous tactics against him. Garulfo ends up disarming his adversary but spares his life, unfortunately Hégeulard then pulls out a crossbow and prepares to shoot him while making a speech about how in this world, the most wicked like himself will always triumph over the weak like Garulfo without ever having to pay for their evil actions... and then he gets his foot caught in the wolf trap that he had set earlier. As the injured Count is shouting at the fleeing Garulfo and Pipa that he will find them one day and get his revenge by inflicting all kinds of terrible punishment on them, he suddenly hears a growl behind him and sees the female wolf pouncing on him to tear him apart.

Oh boy, was this incredibly cathartic!

Freudian Excuse?

Not even the slightest ounce of one.

Mitigating Factors?

The comic has quite a lot of humor, even more so than De Cape et de Crocs, and Hégeulard has a few more comedic moments than Mendoza, such as when he literally gets his ass kicked by Garulfo after losing the duel and whines that he would have preferred death. He also has a tendency to shout anachronistic insults when he gets angry, and he behaves even more like a Card-Carrying Villain than Mendoza himself.

Nevertheless, Count Hégeulard remains by far the villain taken the most seriously in this comic, and his crimes, especially the wolf's murder, are treated as particularly horrific.

Redeeming Qualities?

It's very clear that his sympathetic attitude towards Garulfo at the beginning is only him trying to make himself look good and manipulate what seems to be a powerful and important man (which is clearly what he is already doing with the King).

He spares the life of his right-hand man after his failure, but it's clear that he was fully willing to kill him and only spared him only because he made him play a twisted game and the guy got lucky.

Other than that, the closest thing to a "nice" thing he did was when he offered the old maid to share their murder of Garulfo by stabbing him at the same time. And even that was just Pragmatic Villainy, as fighting her as well would have been more trouble than it's worth.

Heinous Standard

There is exactly zero doubt that he is by far the most evil character in this comic.

When Garulfo talks to a horse who has spent more time around humans than he has, the horse tells him that Hégeulard's cruel behavior is nothing unusual and that most humans are like him... and yet, while we meet quite a few jerks in this comic book series, none of them come even close to the level of ruthlessness demonstrated by Hégeulard, not by a long shot.

The kings are jerks, but it’s quite clear they just behave like all the kings of that time. The old maid only wants to kill Garulfo due to a misunderstanding. The witch, the ogre and the Black Knight are revealed to be Not Evil, Just Misunderstood. The wolf, the pike, the snakes, the hedgehog, the cat, the heron, the weasel and even the dragon are only animals who need to eat to survive, some of them even have families to feed. Most of the knights are arrogant bullies, but they genuinely care about each others. The assassin for hire and the guards are only doing what they do because they are paid. In the end, Hegueulard isn’t just the most evil character, in a sense he’s the only true villain in the whole story.

Now, even if he is unquestionably the worst villain in this comic, is he heinous enough for CM status? Well, I have to admit that compared to Mendoza, he hasn't been able to commit that many crimes. However, it should be mentioned that, despite dealing with some pretty dark themes such as Humans Are Bastards, this comic is much more lighthearted, humorous and kid-friendly than De Cape et de Crocs. There has to be less than ten named characters who die in the entire comic series, even including the animals.

Hégueulard's murder of the wolf is particularly brutal, and the sadistic glee he displays by setting a trap to kill his female in a horrible way is truly disturbing. Even if you don't like wolves, you can't watch this scene without feeling sorry for them, and it's clearly stated that he does this kind of things quite often. What makes it even worse is the fact that the two wolves were shown earlier to be caring parents looking desperately to feed their cubs. Admittedly, Hegeulard doesn't seem to be aware that animals are sentient in this setting (Garulfo did tell him that his horse was sentient before the hunt, but Hégueulard didn't seem to take it seriously)... nevertheless, since he's shown to be more than happy to brutally beat innocent villagers and murder his rivals (like Garulfo), I think it's safe to say that he wouldn't have any problem with it even if he knew. I'm even willing to bet that he would enjoy it even more.

As far as humans are concerned, his body count is rather low. In total, he only tried to kill three people: Garulfo (by stabbing him, poisoning him and shooting him with an arrow), his right-hand man (by slitting his throat) and Pipa (he doesn't get the chance to directly attack her, but he does threaten her). He also apparently conspires against the King, but this is not very much elaborated. However, he's also shown to be particularly violent towards the villagers when he and his men come to collect the taxes. While we don't see any on-screen deaths, we do see several poor villagers being knocked down and beaten to a pulp, and guards threatening some villagers with their weapons (with the implication that they use their weapons on them off-panel). There are even children in the middle of all of it, we can see some of them trying to run away with their mothers from guards who clearly want to hurt them. Not to mention that Hégueulard and his men steal pretty much all the money and food from the villagers, condemning them to starvation. Even though he's technically acting on the King's orders, it's clear that Hégeulard takes immense sadistic pleasure in hurting other people (and animals), and that's why he has chosen to take the role of tax collector (and huntsman).

As a side note, I read this comic when I was a young kid. At this age, I tended to be horrified every time I saw a fictional character dying. But this guy was such a thoroughly despicable bastard that even my young self couldn’t help but cheer when he died. To this day, I still remember his death scene as one of the most satisfying Karmic Death I’ve ever seen in any work of fiction.

Verdict

I really, really want him to count, but I'm not entirely sure his crimes are enough. What do you guys think?

Edited by Mimic45 on Jul 11th 2022 at 12:44:03 PM

Mimic45 Since: Feb, 2017
#318004: Jul 11th 2022 at 2:16:19 PM

Oh, and [tup] to Prince, Jack Taggart, Rashay, Darya, Ivan and Mr. Lee.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#318005: Jul 11th 2022 at 2:19:49 PM

[tup] to Lee and the Count

Cut Terry and Margo (Though I think their boss may be worth an EP)

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#318006: Jul 11th 2022 at 2:21:43 PM

Mimic, that's still fairly lengthy.

Ordeaux: I guess under Mario?

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#318007: Jul 11th 2022 at 2:24:59 PM

I mean yeah but I am not sure if I should put it at the top or bottom of the Franchise-wide folder.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#318008: Jul 11th 2022 at 2:28:50 PM

Ah...I say since it's based off a fan work, bottom.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#318009: Jul 11th 2022 at 2:33:37 PM

Hey you you know if Terry is getting cut because of pictures with him and his wife then maybe we may have to cut John Stone from NCIS: New Orleans.

I previously mentioned the possibility of Stone getting cut before, due to the revelation of him having a wife who's seeking to avenge him.

Then Awesomekid said that Mr. Stone could possibly stay since Stone never mentioned his wife.

That said I did said that there were pictures of Stone and Amelia being together and affectionate, but no one ever commented on that so I thought that if wasn't militating enough to disqualify him, but if we are cutting Terry because of pictures with his wife then we may have to cut Stone for these reasons. Still any thoughts?

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#318010: Jul 11th 2022 at 2:38:18 PM

[up][up] I wish that we could put in with a tree with the OG Last Impact but since it's a Fan Game and this is a Fanfic can't happen. Maybe in the future when we need to make that Mario Fan Works page.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#318011: Jul 11th 2022 at 3:06:47 PM

While I'm working on the EP for Terry and Margo's boss, I thought I'd say real quick that a Neon Genesis Evangelion live action film is in the works, if anyone wants to take ?

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
AFreakyDude Since: Jul, 2015
#318012: Jul 11th 2022 at 3:07:12 PM

New video:

The Work: Deadpool (2016) The Character: Ajax The Link: https://youtu.be/RbHmOrlW_oY What's Going On: Ajax has tortured Wade Wilson to the point of having the mutant genes kick in. He brags to him that his facility is actually making super slaves. After Wade has been tortured by asphyxiation, Ajax decides to put him back in the chamber because he can.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#318013: Jul 11th 2022 at 3:26:12 PM

[tup]Lee.

[up]Sure. This is the scene that sold him for me.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#318014: Jul 11th 2022 at 3:30:25 PM

So since people were interested.

Kidnap is a 2017 action thriller movie starring and co-produced by Halle Berry. The movie sees Karla, a single mother and waitress who spends what starts out as a normal day at the park, with her beloved son Frankie...only for things to go south when Frankie is kidnapped by our recently cut couple, Terry and Margo. With the police's delayed reactions, and the kidnappers just ahead of her, Karla takes it upon herself to rescue her son.

As it turns out, the couple are part of a child kidnapping ring, and they have a third member and ringleader in the form of their unnamed "neighbour", who shows up to be the True Final Boss.

Who is he ? What does he do ?

While he has no name in the movie proper (he's just called "Bearded Man" in the credits), nor is he revealed until the very end, he is Terry and Margo's partner and ringleader in their child abduction operations. He's also their tie to international child trafficking operations that stretch to New York, Dubai, London and Paris. While Karla is pursuing the kidnappers, she sees a dozen missing persons posters at a police station, showing that the operation has been going back as far as 2001.

Over the movie, Karla has repeated encounters with Terry and Margo, eventually killing both and tracking down their home, where she finds Frankie along with two other girls that have also been kidnapped. After Karla kills Margo, their boss confronts Karla at gunpoint acting like a concerned neighbour who doesn't know what's going on. When she explains the situation, he acts like a good samaritan, reassuringly telling both girls to come down from the attic...only Karla realizes his involvement as she didn't say the number or genders of the kids in the attic. Realizing she's onto him, he prepares to shoot Karla, only for her to knock him out with a shovel...although the news reports at the end say it apparently killed him.

Either way, Kalra's efforts help expose and ultimately dismantle the operation, with numerous arrests occurring where the operation reached.

Mitigating Qualities ?

Okay, so...the man himself only appears in one scene, during which he's given nothing mitigating. His only characterization is Bitch in Sheep's Clothing, acting like a concerned neighbor checking in on Margo when he hears gunshots, and playing dumb when he finds out about the kidnapped kids. He then tries to kill Karla when she realizes his connection.

He only really exists to be the film's True Final Boss in a Post-Climax Confrontation.

As far as the heinous standard goes, he's the boss of Terry and Margo's operations. While Terry and Margo are the ones getting their hand dirty with the child abductions, their "Neighbor" is the one running the operation, and we see enough of their activities throughout, showing they've been in the child trafficking business as far back at the early 2000's; and according to the reporters at the end of the movie, they were involved in an international child trafficking ring.

The one issue here is that their boss kind of takes a back seat, while Terry and Margo doing the dirty work; Terry and Margo are the ones Karla are chasing throughout; Terry and Margo are the ones threatening to harm Frankie; Terry and Margo are the ones who torment and try to kill Karla; Terry's the one who killed a cop and two bystanders over the movie. Their boss just shows up once the smoke is clear to see what all the noise was about.

But with all that said, he is the ringleader of a child kidnapping ring, one that's connected to a larger, more international one, so maybe it's a Quality vs Quantity case ? I'll leave it to you guys, since these cases often hit or miss for me.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#318015: Jul 11th 2022 at 3:32:30 PM

Yes to Count Hégeulard and the Ajax vid

Regarding Stone, I don't think Even Evil Can Be Loved is disqualifying on it's own (we have J. Geil from jojo up despite his mom being upset about his death) the pictures however are making me think he should be cut (especially with his wife wanting to avenge him).

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#318016: Jul 11th 2022 at 3:33:35 PM

[tup] to the Boss.

So anyone wants to comment on Stone?

[up] just when I posted lol

Edited by G-Editor on Jul 11th 2022 at 12:35:13 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#318018: Jul 11th 2022 at 3:39:10 PM

Can we see a shortened EP of the Count?

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#318019: Jul 11th 2022 at 3:41:12 PM

Yes to the Bearded Man and I’d love to take the NGE film!

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#318021: Jul 11th 2022 at 3:43:09 PM

How do we know he's the head and not just another partner?

As for NCIS dude, I'm fine with him staying myself.

username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#318022: Jul 11th 2022 at 4:02:19 PM

Yeah I haven't rewatched the film yet but it sounds a bit like we are jumping the gun with all the "yes" to the bearded man. I for one, Luke a little more characterization to my cms but that is more of a personal gripe, I guess.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#318023: Jul 11th 2022 at 4:09:52 PM

Gonna wait for an answer to ACW's question on the Bearded Man.

As for the Count [tdown]. All I'm seeing is animal cruelty, assaulting peasants, nearly killing one goon and trying to kill the hero.

Edited by DemonDuckofDoom on Jul 11th 2022 at 4:10:13 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#318024: Jul 11th 2022 at 4:10:32 PM

Yes to the beard dude. And cut the Unholy Matrimony working for him.

No to the Count. That is the textbook definition of generic villainy. "Beats up some villagers" is not the be-all and end-all of villainy when he and his soldiers could be raping, murdering and torturing them instead.

To wrap up Ghost, the next dude from the rebooted Ghost, the arc comprising issues #5—#8...

What has Von Ghastly done?

A former camera technician turned wannabe celebrity from Peoria, a middle-aged Von Ghastly had a life crisis when he realized he was probably doomed to a life of mediocrity and YouTube videos, Von Ghastly turned to dark magic to make sure he'd live forever. Specifically, the human-sacrificing kind of magic.

Von Ghastly isn't just any boring old cultist though. The dude reinvents himself as a super successful celebrity who hosts a horror show called Cinemageddon, with "special effects" comprised of Von Ghastly murdering his extras over and over and over again. These special effects, of course, are anything but; Von Ghastly has been sacrificing literally dozens of people from his cult on-air and dressing it up as TV, killing and torturing people in every way from feeding them to crocs, to hanging them, burning them alive, ripping out their guts while they're alive, dicing them them up with a scalpel on an operating table Mad Doctor-style...

All of these sacrifices are meant to fuel a ritual that will make Von Ghastly omnipotent. Having discovered the presence of the multiverse, Von Ghastly seeks to open gates to countless other worlds and have their eldritch contents spill out onto Earth, resulting in an incomprehensibly terrifying apocalypse. All this so Van Ghastly can glut himself on a world's worth of fear and terror as the planet is subject to horror by one Eldritch Abomination after another. Von Ghastly even spitefully starts murdering the innocent people Ghost is saving, before she finally defeats him and banishes him from Earth's reality.

Into one of the other worlds, where said eldritch horrors immediately converge on a screaming Von Ghastly...

Any mitigating factors?

Unlike Nemo, Von Ghastly is just a "boring old human" but he's easily just as cruel, with an endgame just as—maybe even worse—than Nemo's. The dude is stacking well out of his league for a cultist who appears in a single arc. Nothing much to talk about.

Conclusion?

Keeper.

Edited by Scraggle on Jul 11th 2022 at 5:14:18 AM

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#318025: Jul 11th 2022 at 4:12:57 PM

[tup] Von Ghastly

It's Spooky Month!

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