During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Steve, Li Ru, Arborachnid, Shapphir'd, Crux.
Leaning towards cut Bonnie.
I am the one, I am the one, the godlike terror train, superior artificial brain, feel free to call me Blaine@ACW: you forgot to add Abnesti to pending since he has more than 5 votes
Also
to Crux
Honestly, I say keep to Bonnie. The joke ending, being just a joke ending that must be locked in a special way doesn't really sound disqualifying to me and I really am not convinced of her friendship with Bear being genuine. Yes, she's quite nice to him, but honestly to me it just looks like a baker acting nice to who probably is a regular client and her telling him to stay safe because of all the disappearances going on kinda loses value when she is the cause of said disappearances.
Bonnie's relationship with the bear is really vague, she tells him to stay safe, but the thing is that she is the murderer who kidnaps people at night (and the danger bear was talking about when he said he was worried, which led to Bonnie to tell him to stay safe), so it's ultimate fells flat, since until Bonnie herself decides to make him part of her "ingridients", he is already safe. And everything Bonnie does and says in her half of the game is shown to be simply as something of a "mask", she secretly kidnaps and murders sentient animals off the street, she isn't going to be open about it and she simply uses an image of a good and sweet person so that no one would suspect her of anything. There is no clear cut indication she actually truly cares about the bear.
Edited by VeryVileVillian on Jul 1st 2022 at 9:54:18 PM
I vote keep for Bonnie. From what I see, her "friendship" with the bear is just a part of her Bitch in Sheep's Clothing persona: she acts like a Nice Girl on public, but beneath the mask she's a murderer who cooks sapient animals to sell as food to public, and her telling the bear to be safe falls flat given that she's the danger he's worried about in the first place, even though bear himself isn't aware of that. There is no clear indication that her care for bear is genuine, and I think it's only a matter of time before she might decide to use him as ingredient as well.
"Ever since the day I was born, I've never once uttered a lie! I'm a virtuous weakling! As pitiful as I am, nobody shows me any sympathy!"Thanks to ACW for letting me know the Hirikones have received enough upvotes, as I couldn't check lately. Here's my writeup for New Game Plus (2022).
- The Hirikones are a couple of wealthy, entitled assholes who love to lord their status over anyone they consider beneath them, and think they can buy and bully their way through everything. They also hate Quirkless people. Their toxic mentality is clear in their daughter Ai, a cruel and spoiled girl enrolled in a public middle school just to strut their status and control over the school board, which grants her free reign: she gleefully bullies Aoi Haji, already suffering from domestic abuse, to jump off the roof and has the gall to be publicly angry when the suicide attempt is narrowly averted. The Hirikones seem to loathe the very concept of being nice to someone else, to the point that as eventually revealed, they hated Ai for being born quirkless, gentle and humble so much they seeked All For One to have a quirk and an alternate personality forced on her, getting their ideal daughter while the original Ai spent almost a decade imprisoned in her own body, witnessing all the horrible actions the other Ai did with it. While the Hirikones' crimes are small-scale compared to villains like AFO, they can come off as even more hateful because of the incredibly futile reasons for their evil: no bigger plans or ideals, just two rich nasty people who enjoy being that, devoid of any redeeming qualities. No surprise nor sorrow for them suffering Laser-Guided Karma in both this and the original timeline.
Edited by Swiss666 on Jul 2nd 2022 at 4:06:01 AM
Yeah, again, nothing really indicates that Bonnie has a genuine friendship with Bear, especially since the game starts by presenting Bonnie as a good person and then reveal later that she's a murderous psycho. If anything that's Alternate Character Interpretation.
Edited by CapitanoNox on Jul 2nd 2022 at 11:29:15 AM
for Crux
@Lore Deluxe: I’m going to be honest: I believe the second and the third paragraph only describe what happens to the victims but don’t give the King any personality. If there are ten pages describing a serial killer gruesomely murdering his victims but not a single sentence about the serial killer's thoughts or motives then the Serial Killer can’t be a CM due to his lack of personality. However, the first paragraph where the King that’s about claiming the Player Character as his, that’s what I was looking for. That’s why I’m giving the Sapphir'd King a
.
Abstaining on Bonnie. Does she genuinely care for Bear or is she just putting up a facade of a nice person? I can’t really tell.
I've carefully reread the relevant part in Les Murails d'Ananke and... I still don't feel like proposing King Ornis. Here's why:
The Bird people treatment of the humans is beyond the pale and well above the baseline. However Ornis? He's barely present and has a grand total of 3 lines. None of those establish a characterization.
Basically he shows up on a grandstand when the latest gladiator games opens. Bob and his friends burn the prisonner camps and start a revolt. Florence then seizes Ornis and put a knife under his throat threatening to kill him should his men not surrender. Ornis yells "Don't move!". A bird shoots an arrow, so Bob repeats the threats causing Ornis to cries "Stop! Stop! Don't Shoot!".Bob asks him to say it louder and Onis complies with the same line: "Stop! Don't shoot".
Next chapter, Bob tries to interrogate him but he remains defiantly silent and is soon taken to the prison. THE END
I know we can have C Ms with limited presence and lines. Myself, I proposed the Pirate Captain who appears in like four pages but still has a full conversation that establishes his personality and goals. Heck even in Ananke, Borold has like 3 scenes but has enough dialogues and we also get more infos and insight about him from other characters (Tar and William Shane).
But for Ornis, even in the rest of the book, we have next to nothing about him. We never learn about his motive, his backstory or his relationship with fellows birdmen. I know Bad Boss is not a requirement for Cmdom but I fail to see how Ornis stand out next to fellow Ananke Tyrants Borold, Ingue and Golo.
All around, I feel like Ornis is little more than a plot device so the heroes can have a conveniant hostage because, otherwise, they're severely outnumbered.
I repeat what I once said about Arturo from Largo Winch: if people here distrust my judgement, you can read the books note and if you have compeling arguments in favor of Ornis's inclusion, I'm all ears but - for me - I don't want to waste time scrapping the bottom of the barrel for what would be at best a technical keeper.
So to make up for Moriarty, Mir kindly gave me another Sherlock Holmes candidate to propose.
What’s the Work?
Associates of Sherlock Holmes is an anthology from 2016 about first person recountings from many of Holmes’s closest friends and enemies.
“Peeler”, by Nick Kyme, is the final story in the anthology. Here, we follow Inspector Lestrade as he tries to take down a twisted serial killer, the titular Peeler, who rivals Jack the Ripper in cruelty, with the help of Holmes and Watson.
Who is He?
The Peeler, in actuality Morris Duggen, is a serial killer who prowls the streets of London killing people and taking their skin.
What has he done?
Considered a being of pure evil by Lestrade himself, Duggen was originally a constable who moonlighted as a thief with his fellow constable and partner in crime Arthur Wainwright. Stealing The Duchess painting and several thousand pounds from the London and Westminster, the heist resulted in an incendiary device going off in an attempt to detonate the vault, which resulted in a massive fire. Duggen used the fire to his advantage, faking his death with the charred body of Wainwright’s cousin Archie.
But the fire led to Duggen’s immense disfigurement, ruining his face and preventing him from speaking. So to get around this, and to search for the missing money from the heist, Duggen decided to kill and skin several people in order to construct a mask made from their flesh. Becoming "the Peeler", Duggen’s first kill is Jeremiah Goose, who supposedly stole the money from the London and Westminster and put it in a lockbox. But when he couldn’t find the key to the lockbox at the Alderbrook Workhouse, Duggen set fire to the building so that nobody can get their hands on the money, which resulted in several deaths.
Duggen would go on to kill three more people and steal their skin to complete his mask. When encountered by a young, cherished constable, Duggen slit his throat and attempted to steal his flesh, but he was interrupted by Lestrade. Later torturing and killing Wainwright for the whereabouts of the lockbox’s key, Duggen went back to the burned down Workhouse to get his money. But he’s later killed during a chase with Lestrade, falling to his death as he tries to steal the lockbox for himself.
Redeeming Qualities?
None. Duggen’s a terrible human being who will resort to disturbing murders of innocents and associates alike just to cover up his crimes. The man’s greed personified, killing his own friends just so he can keep all the money for himself.
And while he doesn’t talk, Lestrade describes Duggen forming a faint smile as he commits his crimes, showing how much fun Duggen has murdering and peeling people’s flesh off.
Heinousness?
Dude’s one of the most disturbing serial killers in Sherlock history, with a very unique method of killing straight out of a horror movie, plus his burning of the Alderbrook Workhouse knowing it was full of people adds to his bodycount.
Nobody else counts in the anthology.
Conclusion
Keeper
Oh no. Duggen's always been evil, and his disfigurement is nowhere close to making him sympathetic; in fact, it only makes him more selfish.
Edited by therealjackieboy on Jul 2nd 2022 at 9:35:28 AM
It's Spooky Month!

BTW, has Obi-Wan Kenobi been discussed yet?
Edited by nwotyzal on Jul 1st 2022 at 7:16:04 AM