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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

TBmacho22 Since: Jul, 2021 Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
#316576: Jun 27th 2022 at 5:18:37 PM

@nwotyzal

If I just left the bottom panel, would it be better?

TBmacho22 Since: Jul, 2021 Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
#316577: Jun 27th 2022 at 5:26:33 PM

Ok regarding the Cosmos image I decided to knock it down to one panel, hopefully this will suffice

Here's my enhanced image proposal for Cosmos from MLP IDW

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/1985744_1_1.jpg

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#316578: Jun 27th 2022 at 5:32:53 PM

[up]Honestly not a fan. Cosmos is barely in-frame, and without context, you can't tell she's responsible.

Why so serious?
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#316579: Jun 27th 2022 at 5:37:57 PM

[up] Yeah, I don;t think it works without the explanitory text, and with it, it's probably too wordy

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#316580: Jun 27th 2022 at 6:52:26 PM

Likewise not a huge fan of either form of the image, if anything the one with text is decent.

Alrighty, lemme knock these out:

  • Blade II: Eli Damaskinos is the Overlord of the Vampire Nation, and the true villain behind the Reaper outbreak. A believer in the pureblood rhetoric of vampires, Damaskinos schemes to create an entirely new race of vampires to overthrow and slaughter humanity and vamprekind alike, with Damaskinos as the progenitor of the new species. In his quest for this, Damaskinos oversees routine mass murder of humans to harvest their bloods in such quantities as to fill factory reservoirs, and Damaskinos personally bathes in large pools of his victims' blood. Willing to forego all semblance of empathy or humanity to achieve his desires, Damaskinos experimented on his own son Nomak to turn him into a Reaper before targeting him for death, and Damaskinos later sends his daughter and her elite squadron to die at Nomak's hands, uncaring of the swathes of life lost in the process so long as he can raise an entire brood of vampire children to be experimented upon.

  • Absolution Rubicon:
    • The Mayor of New York, annoyed by Enhancile John Dusk going rogue and disobeying orders, seeks to kill Dusk and suppress potential Enhancile individuality through the most ruthless means possible. The Mayor unleashes the monstrous Polymath onto New York, promising to serve up whatever populated city or country the supervillain wishes to slaughter his way through in exchange for Dusk's death. When the Polymath instead reneges on the deal and begins massacring New York civilians, the Mayor smugly shrugs the mass of deaths off, immediately blackmailing and assassinating his own allies to cover up his hand in Polymath's release. The Mayor plans to frame his loyal right-hand Gordon for everything, utterly remorseless about the thousands the Polymath killed thanks to the Mayor's own blind, arrogant desire for control.

  • Skyscraper:
    • Xia is the trigger-happy right-hand woman to Kores Botha. Introduced torturing and trying to execute hero Will, Xia murders a variety of cops that show up to arrest her. Xia later leads the wholesale slaughter of an entire room of innocent tech workers while whistling merrily, killing over a dozen people and personally gunning down several security agents. Enabling Botha's scheme to invade the Pearl and kill dozens more people, Xia executes one of her own allies with deadpan snark and tries to strangle Will's wife to death for halting Xia's murderous rampage of more police officers.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#316581: Jun 27th 2022 at 7:15:07 PM

May as well put down my own (ACW this 'un's seasons 5-6 so I'm putting him first):

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#316582: Jun 27th 2022 at 7:27:40 PM

Yes to our recent Ghost baddies. I've got a guy from the original run who I think is worth a post: Hunger.

What has Hunger done?

Part-time hitman, part-time psionic rapist, Hunger is called in to eliminate Ghost, whom he soon finds he's attracted to for her unconquerable spirit after he's already spent his lifetime raping and denigrating women with his powers for pleasure. We first see Hunger using his psychic powers on two mooks auditioning in a Trial by Combat for one of the big bads, Dr. October. Soon, the two mooks go from fighting each other to loving each other to raping each other to tearing each other to bloody pieces—while Hunger watches with a bored, rote expression, watching it like a "bad movie." He's done this to people so much it's literally become routine to him.

Unlike Archibald Scythe (or even other villains with perverted Compelling Voice powers, like the Purple Man) Hunger isn't satisfied just using his powers to hypnotize women into sleeping with him. After "around twenty" women, that's become boring to him. So he decides to experiment with his powers. The "trick" he claims has worked for him several times in the past—the process of which we see, in sickening detail, on-page—is using his powers to hypnotize women into having sex with him, only to cut his powers off mid-sex as a means of sadistic sexual humiliation. He relishes the look of a woman when she knows her entire life has been ruined: most of them end up committing suicide. He especially hates "strong" women and he'll destroy their lives for no other reason that a look he interprets as condescending.

Yet even this is becoming boring and "done" to him.

So to gain Ghost's attention, he hypnotizes one of Ghost's allies into stalking Ghost and following her...where, because of Hunger's power, the two end up physically unable to do anything but start having sex on the spot. Until, as usual, Hunger cuts his powers mid-intercourse; the poor dude he hypnotizes runs off in traumatized tears while Hunger telepathically taunts Ghost. This eventually leads the two into a showdown, where Ghost ends the bastard by crashing a subway train with Hunger right at the front.

Miraculously, Hunger survives, but he's paralyzed from the neck down and confined to a wheelchair. He engages in an Villain Team-Up with a bunch of the other supervillains introduced up to this point, but doesn't do too much (he does use his powers to sexually humiliate a captive of the villain alliance) and finally dies when two of the other villains form a massive, kaiju fusion with each other, resulting in Hunger being burned alive by the energy released.

Any mitigating factors?

Hunger would fly right the fuck over in most over conventional settings, but the issue is "psionic rapist" (and just "rapist" in general) is a niche occupied by about a half-dozen villains in Ghost. There is somewhat of an advantage here in that rape, as a crime, is contained almost entirely within Ghost itself. But competition includes:

  • Archibald Scythe, who forms his own rape cult—see STAR's EP
  • Snake, a literally reptilian man who uses psychic powers to force at least two women to star in sleazy sex films (doesn't count—even with godlike power he barely does anything outside of this and his victim count is nebulous)
  • Leo Marino and his benefactor Malcolm Greymatter from the Batgirl crossover, who bring women back from the dead and coerce them into prostitution (neither of these guys count; the latter is a total Butt-Monkey and just a henchman in the end, and the latter is a really weird Well-Intentioned Extremist)
  • Cameron Nemo, all-powerful Reality Warper whose crimes include making people rape each other—again, see STAR's EP

I still think Hunger stands out; he's legit one fuck-off hitman who happens to have a power shared by most of the other villains in the setting, even the really big ones. I think the people best to compare him directly to are Scythe and Snake, since Nemo is a demon with godlike power and Greymatter is an immortal millionaire whose canonicity is extremely debatable. Scythe's powers function in the exact same way, but they're stronger and more explicitly permanent; either way, Scythe has boatloads more resources and the backing of an alien invasion force of whom he's a major pusher for. Snake is a lot closer to Hunger's tier (he doesn't gain said "godlike power" until shortly before his death) but again, he's severely neutered by the vagueness of his victim count and his comparative lack of creativity or sadism compared to Hunger.

That's by-and-large what STAR and I think pushes Hunger; creative sadism. The lengths he goes to in order to sexually denigrate women, even beyond what Scythe does in some instances, and the length of his victim count—twenty people minimum—and the specific ways he kills many of his victims afterwards are just deplorable.

Conclusion?

I think he's a keep. Even if he's in a niche shared by a bunch of other villains, Hunger's still so godawful and visceral in his evil and he so obviously outclasses other villains at his tier that I think he sticks out.

Edited by Scraggle on Jun 27th 2022 at 8:29:57 AM

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#316583: Jun 27th 2022 at 7:29:34 PM

And I’m gonna agree - yeah to Hunger, dude pulls moves I’ve never seen before

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#316584: Jun 27th 2022 at 7:34:40 PM

Yes to Trash, Beryl, Edwards, Hunger.

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#316586: Jun 27th 2022 at 7:59:18 PM

[tup] Fanon Ganons.

[tup] Scythe and Trouvaille.

[tup] The Trash Bag Killer. "Things are gettin' weird in Riverdale".

[tup] Barovsky.

[tup] Mr. Edwards.

[tup] Hunger.

Edited by Beast on Jun 27th 2022 at 7:59:37 AM

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#316588: Jun 27th 2022 at 8:53:12 PM

[tup] Hunger. What issues does he appear in?

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#316590: Jun 27th 2022 at 10:28:24 PM

[tup] Hunger

Uh, guys. La Llorona exists, Enrique is still listed right? So we can add him to the YMMV page

Watch me destroying my country
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#316592: Jun 27th 2022 at 11:29:45 PM

[tup] Both Gamondorfs, Scythe, Barovsky, Trouvaille, TBK, Edwards, Pearlshire and Hunger

Any more votes on my Eclipso quote? So far only Unknown has commented.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#316593: Jun 27th 2022 at 11:58:26 PM

Not a big fan honestly it's just kind of basic.

TellAll111 Since: Jun, 2010
#316594: Jun 28th 2022 at 12:49:58 AM

[tup] for the Hirikones (tentative), the Ganon, the Pennywise videos, Scythe, Barovsky, Trouvaille, the Trash Bag Killer, Edwards, Pearlshine, and Hunger.

[tdown] for Nathaniel.

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#316597: Jun 28th 2022 at 2:24:39 AM

Yes to Beryl and Hunger.

Lighty and 43: How IS the Gungrave anime? I have both games, but never saw the anime.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#316598: Jun 28th 2022 at 2:53:51 AM

[tup]Hunger.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#316599: Jun 28th 2022 at 2:58:19 AM

[tup] to Hunger

Bow to the Prototype
WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#316600: Jun 28th 2022 at 4:15:52 AM

[tup] TBK (swear that show was just meant to be an angsty teenage drama), Edwards, Beryl, Hunger, Eclipso quote

[tdown] Cosmos image (the crime isn't the problem the presentation is a mess IMO)

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!

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