During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
to Mephistopheles
By the way ACW with this new one I gave Mario its own folder on the Monster Fan Works page with a bit of organization.
- Mario Brothers: King Koopa is the power-hungry ruler of the Koopa Troop and is far more villainous than his game counterpart. Obsessed with getting his hands on the Life Mushrooms, Koopa rallies his troops to storm Princess Toadstool's castle and kill her if she does not reveal their location. When the Mario Brothers attempt to stop his schemes, Koopa kills Luigi by using his fire breath to burn him alive. Koopa leads his army on an assault against the Princess's castle, killing dozens of Toads who were protecting her. Once it becomes clear that the Princess won't hand over the Life Mushrooms, Koopa kidnaps her to learn how create them for himself. He then sends a legion of Hammer Bros. to round up the remaining Toads for his own purposes. When Mario finally confronts him to save the Princess, Koopa proceeds to taunt him over Luigi's death and promises that he will share his brother's fate.
- Odyssey fanfic Bring Him Home (link
): Dimentio, after having survived his defeat, bided his time in the Luncheon Kingdom. Dimentio kidnapped Luigi for the purpose of turning Luigi back into Mr. L, with the two constantly fighting for control. Dimentio's ultimate goal is to use the Chaos Heart to blow up the volcano in the Luncheon Kingdom to cause an eruption so huge that it would wipe out every single kingdom in the entire world, as revenge for his defeat.
- The Plumber Knight Returns: The Koopa is a far darker incarnation of The Darkness. The leader of the terrorists known as the Goombas, the Koopa took over and ruled Ferral City with his forces, punishing anyone who disobeys him, including his own men. The Koopa claims to be the killer of Luigi just to goad Mario out of retirement so he could defeat him once and for all and then sends Jeckal to kidnap Mario's friend and ally John Gibbs and tortures him to near-death, leading to him dying from his injuries later. The Koopa lures Mario into the woods in an attempt to kill him, disappearing before returning in season 2 to finish his plans, killing the Blue Hood, a cybernetically enhanced and brainwashed Luigi, after he comes to his senses, just to spite Mario further. The Darkness reveals he wishes to drown the world in chaos and madness by manipulating humanity from the shadows and making them give into negative desires and emotions. A sadistic and inhuman psychopath who sees happiness and joy as facades, this version of the Darkness is a chaos-worshipping lunatic driven by his jealousy of life itself.
- The Seven Sorcerers (link
): Dimentio survives his defeat from the previous game and decides to exact revenge on Mario and his friends by trying to again wipe out all of existence and create a new universe in Dimension D. He first hypnotizes seven sorcerers to kill Mario's party and, simultaneously, kidnaps Mario and imprisons him in Dimension D and impersonates him during his friends' journey. When Mario's friends seemingly reverse Dimentio's scheme, he reveals himself to them and hypnotizes Blumiere and his former minions to kill Luigi, Princess Peach, and Bowser, before planning to kill his hypnotized servants and use the Pure Hearts to create an even more powerful void to destroy all of existence. When Dimentio is defeated, he hypnotizes Blumiere again to kill his lover, Timpani, and drive him to commit suicide. He also fakes his own death to make it seem that Dimension D was wiped out with Mario to spite the heroes one last time.
- The Temple of the Sun: Bulbin is the mayor of Viney Valley who is secretly running the Poisoned Factory, which is an incredibly dangerous place that is poisoning its surroundings. In doing so, Bulbin has threatened the lives of everyone on Chronoside by tainting their main source of water, the Trickleback River, while also causing several of his own citizens to get incredibly sick. In order to protect his image, Bulbin frames a citizen of Viney Valley who discovered the truth by telling everyone that she was the one responsible instead of him, forcing her out of her home in exile. Bulbin then proceeds to force her to work for him afterwards by threatening the life of her sickly son unless she does everything she's told to. When he's finally discovered, Bulbin proceeds to experiment upon himself by ingesting some of his own poison to give him the advantage in the fight.
- Together Again (link
): Dimentio is a sociopathic jester who wants to acquire the Chaos Heart to wipe out all of existence and then use the Crystal Heart to create his own "perfect" world. He first told Blumiere's father about his son's affair with Timpani, knowing that he would separate the two and wipe out Timpani's memory, which would drive Blumiere into using the Chaos Heart and allowing Dimentio to take it for himself. Dimentio also transformed Timpani from a human into a Pixl to further separate her from Blumiere and out of sheer amusement. When Blumiere is defeated by the heroes, Dimentio attempts to kill Mario, which severely injures Timpani instead when she shields Mario. After taking the Chaos Heart from Blumiere, Dimentio plans to marry Timpani and acquire the Crystal Heart, allowing him to proceed with his plan to wipe out existence. When Timpani escapes with the aid of Crystal, Dimentio catches up to the heroes and physically torments both Crystal and Blumiere, happily ready to kill them both.
Others
- Mario & Luigi fanfic Darkest Timeline (link
): Mephistopheles
Meph
Also, what’s the status on the original version of Mephisto?
Edited by nwotyzal on Jun 23rd 2022 at 11:10:58 AM
Yes to another Mephisto
I can't speak on the original book, but in the play at least, Mephisto never lies - he fulfills his bargains to the letter and doesn't pull Exact Words - and there are even some productions that take the original's Homoerotic Subtext and run with it to make it seem like Mephisto is in love with Faustus. That's even assuming that he's heinous enough since Faustus is largely acting on his own whims there.
You know kind of speaking of very old stories I have a bit of a unusual question that I have been wondering for some time.
Is the original version of Lord Ruthven bad enough? I am reading his writeup and I only see 2 kills and one attempted murder along with draining the blood I guess. Is there something I am missing with that one? I hope asking this doesn't cause an uproar, I am not advocating to cut him yet I am just wondering.
What's the work
The Chamber Below the Dreadfort
is a fanfic based on Game of Thrones' canon with background supplied by the A Song of Ice and Fire novels. It is an AU in which Jaime and Brienne get Sansa out of King's Landing and return her to Rob and Catelyn's camp. It is then decided that Sansa would marry Ramsay Bolton to strengthen the allience between House Stark and House Bolton. The candidate should be obvious by now.
Who is Ramsay Bolton? What has he done?
Ramsay is the heir to Roose Bolton who should marry Sansa Stark. Before the events of the story, he killed his own brother, Domeric (something he himself admits to Sansa later on) and pillaged Winterfell, killing everyone there and framing Theon for the deed. Ramsay has also tortured Theon for 6 months to the point where he is a shell of his former self and can barely move.
When Sansa goes to Dreadfort with her new husband, at first he is nice to her and even gives her a pair of gloves. However, he tells her that there is one private room in the castle she shouldn't go to. Sansa goes exactly there when Ramsay leaves to hunt down bandits out of curiosity and she finds the corpses of two women whose flesh had been peeled off from their backs and a narrow shelf on which several human skulls are placed. Sansa, remembering the stories, knows that one of them belons to Lady Hornwood, Ramsay's previous wife.
Then, she finds Theon who tells her that the two women were his toys until Roose mentioned Sansa to Ramsay. He then flayed the skin off their backs and made a pair of gloves for Sansa as a twisted joke and then left the women alive in case he needed more before killing them and that he intended for Sansa to find this room. Sansa secretly writes a letter to her family and waits for their arrival.
When Ramsay returns, he learns that Sansa had visited his secret room. He then forces her to play a game in which she should get out of the castle without him catching her. Sansa takes Theon with her and the two of them leave the castle but then Ramsay catches her and tries to rape her. Then, Theon interferes and a battle ensues in which Ramsay attempts to cut out Sansa's eyes, stating that she won't need them for whelping and promises that he would starve Theon until he eats her eyes.
But then Catelyn and 20 men arrive, kill Ramsay, rescue Sansa and leave for Winterfell.
Redeeming qualities
Nope. He acts nicely to Sansa at first but then he attempts to rape and blind her.
Heinous standard
He passes it. While some of his crimes are the same as those of his canon counterpart, he does have some unique ones here such as, killing two women and flaying their backs to make gloves out of their skin, keeping an entire shelf with human skulls on top of it and attempting to blind Sansa, feed her eyes to Theon and then use her to give birth to an heir whether she wants to or not. Also, I should note that this story was written before the TV episode where Ramsay actually rapes Sansa and this doesn't happen in the books, so, yes, that's also a unique crime.
Conclusion
A keeper.
Preemptive write-up:
- A Song of Ice and Fire fanfic The Chamber Below the Dreadfort
: Ramsay Bolton is as depraved as in canon. Having murdered his own brother to become the heir to Dreadfort, he also brutally pillaged Winterfell and framed Theon for the crime. Torturing Theon for six months to the point where he is an empty shell of his former self, Ramsay would also murder people in his free time and put their skulls on a shelf, one of which is implied to belong to his previous wife, Lady Hornwood. After marrying Sansa Stark, Ramsay flayed the skin off the backs of two women, leaving them alive for a long time before killing them, to make gloves for his new wife as a joke. Ramsay forces her to participate in a twisted game in which she should attempt to escape from the castle. When he catches her, he tries to force himself on her. After Theon intervenes, Ramsay tries to blind Sansa, stating that she doesn't need eyes for whelping and that he is going to starve Theon until he eats her eyes.
Edited by WatTambor on Jun 23rd 2022 at 10:37:48 PM
Also, guys, where are we going to place Ramsay's entry from this fanfic? The author has stated that the fic is based in the show's canon, with background supplied by the novels.
I would say probably in the A Song of Ice and Fire folder because there are things there that are not mentioned in the show, only in the books, while there are no things only mentioned in the show but not in the books. In addition, this story is tagged as an ASOIAF fic.
Edited by WatTambor on Jun 23rd 2022 at 10:22:05 PM
Speaking of which I have been wondering if we should but the three Star Wars fanfics on the Disney Fan Works page. Disney doesn't technically own the franchise, though considering they didn't originally and I am not sure how many of these fics are meant to be set in their canon that might be tricky.
