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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

SailorVenus372 Since: Nov, 2019 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#316076: Jun 22nd 2022 at 10:41:35 PM

As someone familiar with IDW, and as much as a Hate Sink Zeena is, I have to abstain.

Once the current storyline is over it might be worth looking at Starline. So far he’s been really awful.

Edited by SailorVenus372 on Jun 22nd 2022 at 11:06:24 AM

Get Snuck-Up On.”
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#316077: Jun 22nd 2022 at 10:55:45 PM

No to Zeena. She's, ATM, just a nastier-than-average minion.

That said, I fully agree Starline could qualify later on. He's more-or-less the successor to Dr. Zachary and Dr. Finitevus (he's just not an albino echidna but he fulfills the exact same "secondary villain Mad Scientist") so I saw that coming from the start.

Edited by Scraggle on Jun 22nd 2022 at 11:55:57 AM

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#316079: Jun 22nd 2022 at 11:04:13 PM

[tup]Mayor.

[tdown]Zeena

[up][up]Its actually intentional shout-out. Since you starline is a platypus well those are echidnas.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Flowman Since: Dec, 2021
#316080: Jun 22nd 2022 at 11:05:24 PM

[tdown] Zeena, and I am also doubting if the "destroy the world" plan is heinous enough having heard how the games are unless the comics are noticeably different heinous standard-wise.

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#316081: Jun 23rd 2022 at 1:28:42 AM

[tup] Simon Lusse and the Mayor. [tdown] Cuphead, Mugman and Zeena.

Connor2107 Since: Jun, 2017
#316082: Jun 23rd 2022 at 1:36:33 AM

Thoughts on this quote?

"You may have killed me here, today, but I had the pleasure of killing off your species! Not everyone who fought alongside the Mandalorians did it for their stupid concept of 'honor'. Some of us did it just for the pleasure: the pleasure of seeing your world burn."
Xor, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic

TellAll111 Since: Jun, 2010
#316083: Jun 23rd 2022 at 3:27:55 AM

[tup] for Kemper (tentative), Maureen, Lusse, and the Mayor.

[tdown] for Six, Cuphead and Mugman, and Zeena.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#316084: Jun 23rd 2022 at 3:33:51 AM

Any expansions, additions or cuts for Young Justice (2010)

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#316085: Jun 23rd 2022 at 5:42:15 AM

Sure to Simon.

Yeah, I'd like to see an EP for King Ornis.

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#316086: Jun 23rd 2022 at 6:17:23 AM

[tdown] to Zeena

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
Afterword (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#316087: Jun 23rd 2022 at 6:41:28 AM

[tup] to the Star Wars quote

I'm also working on my first ever EP... I know that the second campaign of Critical Role is taken, but I don't think anyone has dibs on the miniseries that just ended recently, and there's someone there I think might count.

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#316088: Jun 23rd 2022 at 6:48:55 AM

[tup]The Mayor of New York City

[tup] Simon Lusse

Watch me destroying my country
WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#316089: Jun 23rd 2022 at 7:50:51 AM

[tup] Mayor

[tdown] Zeena

With agency concerns if the character was already shown to be a callous Jerkass prior before whatever happened to them that caused the possible agency issue is it negating?

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#316090: Jun 23rd 2022 at 8:08:40 AM

Afterword: Heck, go for it, which mini?

Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#316091: Jun 23rd 2022 at 8:10:16 AM

Yeah, I definitely have my eye on Starline. No to Zeena though

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#316092: Jun 23rd 2022 at 8:19:30 AM

@Wet: This isn't Erol right? As we already shot him down even under new rules. Mind fucking stuff would still be an issue.....

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#316093: Jun 23rd 2022 at 8:20:25 AM

[up][up][up][up] If they're already a callous jerk, it usually downplays any agency concerns. My own Script version of Doc Ock causes a classroom fire and shows no concern for the lives of his students before he goes mad.

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Jun 23rd 2022 at 11:20:33 AM

Afterword (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#316094: Jun 23rd 2022 at 8:40:34 AM

@Lightysnake Exandria Unlimited: Calamity, the one Brennan Lee Mulligan DM-ed... I think his take on Asmodeus might have some potential. Technically it hasn't been two weeks since the last part of it aired yet, so I'm gonna have to wait a week or so to put the EP up, but knowing me it'll probably take me that long to draft it anyway.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#316095: Jun 23rd 2022 at 8:48:18 AM

Another Mario fanfiction.

What is the Work?

Mario & Luigi: Darkest Timeline is a fic released in 2021 based on the Mario & Luigi series by, well actually I don't know who made this fic because the fic is orphaned. It follows Mario and Luigi travelling to the titular Bad Future along with Bowser. The one responsible for creating the titular Darkest Timeline is.

Who is Mephistopheles and What Has He Done?

Yeah, I'm not joking Mephistopheles is actually in this.

Mephistopheles is the same demonic creature he always has been. At some unspecified point, Mephistopheles murdered Princess Peach and used her death to manipulate Bowser by making him think the Mario Brothers killed Peach. Bowser then sells his soul to Mephistopheles in exchange for a massive power boost to his army. Bowser is quickly able to wage war on the Mushroom Kingdom and nearly completely wipes out all the Toads. Bowser, now dubbed Emperor Bowser, is now indebted to Mephistopheles though as a result.

When the past version of Mario, Luigi and Bowser arrive Emperor Bowser is starting to get overwhelmed by the rebels. Mephistopheles seeing this as a failure on Bowser's part murders him and plans to show his son no mercy. The past version of Bowser managed to figure what Mephistopheles' true role in everything is though and reveals himself to the heroes. Mephistopheles explains everything and plans to use the time machine brought from the past to travel back and recreate everything in his image and doesn't care about the possibility of destroying the space-time continuum and destroying billions of universes at once.

Mephistopheles offers Bowser a similar deal as he offered his future counterpart but Bowser refuses. A battle breaks out that gets a Toad killed but ends with Mephistopheles' death.

Does He have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

He is a version of Mephistopheles so of course he doesn't have any redeeming traits in his actual character. He is a pretty basic character but not a generic doomsday villain as he does have personality and motivation. The only things really worth discussing have more to do with the story itself.

I think this is the shortest fic I have ever made a proposal for. I will still say this isn't lacking in substantial plot it is still nearly 5000 words and it isn't just Mephistopheles committing evil actions, it has a lot of focus on the other characters, Character Development in some of them and has things like a beginning middle and end. It also ends on a mostly happy note with Mephistopheles actually defeated.

The fic is also darker than the source material but not only is most of the fic taking place in an alternate Bad Future, but it is even being left ambiguous if it's really the future or just an alternate universe. It is also not that much darker than the source material, the most it gets is large-scale mass murder and genocide and eventually, Mephistopheles trying to remake reality, these are not unheard of in the original franchise and there isn't stuff like rape and graphic torture.

Does He meet the Heinousness Standard?

Mephistopheles is easily the most heinous character in this entire fic. He is responsible for murdering three characters, purposefully provoking a genocidal war between Bowser and the Mushroom Kingdom and trying to remake reality as he sees fit not caring about the possibility of destroying billions of universes after shattering the space-time continuum.

Needing to compare him to the villains in the source material is already pretty questionable but even if you did he is still easily bad enough with how horrible his actions are and how badly they affect everything to the point of creating the Bad Future of the fic and eventually moving to large scale reality destroying.

Final Verdict?

Easy yes. Also, I have a really good quote for him if he is approved.

Mephistopheles: It was all me. I am the one who murdered Peach.
Future Mario: But why?
Mephistopheles: I did it simply because I could. It was so easy. Emotions are very easy to play with, especially the loss of a loved one. Tricking Bowser into selling his soul to me than launching his genocidal campaign against the Mushroom Kingdom, tricking you guys into trying to take down Bowser to the point of compromising your morals, it was all easy. Watching you all suffer from the loss of your precious Princess was so delicious. I want to experience it again. Man, that felt so amazing to say.

SailorVenus372 Since: Nov, 2019 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#316096: Jun 23rd 2022 at 9:32:04 AM

[tup] Mephistopheles. He sounds like Dimentio crossed with Bill Cipher.

Get Snuck-Up On.”
Misry6 Imperfect Disgrace from the Eternal Nothingness Since: Nov, 2021 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Imperfect Disgrace
#316097: Jun 23rd 2022 at 9:38:42 AM

[tup] Mephistopheles.

Just an empty void…
WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#316098: Jun 23rd 2022 at 9:47:10 AM

Sure to Mephistopheles and the quote

@Mir Oh no its not Errol, I'm aware of how the dark eco crash royally fucked his psyche up.

@Star thanks for letting me know.

Edited by WetFlannels on Jun 23rd 2022 at 6:01:25 PM

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
SailorVenus372 Since: Nov, 2019 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#316100: Jun 23rd 2022 at 9:49:43 AM

Yes to the quote. Seems like he does everything For the Evulz.

Get Snuck-Up On.”

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