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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#315726: Jun 18th 2022 at 6:05:22 PM

I will be willing to hear you out on the Ghost characters but reading the page I have some concerns as apparently no sex crimes are illegal in this universe.

Melinda Since: Dec, 2019 Relationship Status: Puppy love
#315727: Jun 18th 2022 at 6:07:15 PM

To ACW

I'm not sure about the exact amount of people (the populations of Canadian cities isn't one of my strong points) but her is planning to kill people those people just to cover hsi tracks for the kaiju egg theft and profit in some additional ways. Plus, it could be argued that by bringing unstable and radioactive baby kaiju into our dimension, he's gambling on risking the whole world for that prize. To be fair, it may not be his plan originally, but he's onboard with it and he never meet his father or grandfather so laying it at Rob's doorstep seems fair.

Edited by Melinda on Jun 18th 2022 at 6:07:48 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#315728: Jun 18th 2022 at 6:08:23 PM

What I'll say on sex crimes in this series, for the original continuity (it's muuuch less of an issue in the reboot stuff): they only appear in Ghost. And while Ghost has...a lot of rapists in its retinue, rape itself never shows up in the many, many other settings. Even X, for as dark as it was, I'm struggling to think of even one villain who even attempted it.

So we'll cross that rock when we begin discussion on Ghost.

Edited by Scraggle on Jun 18th 2022 at 7:10:00 AM

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#315730: Jun 18th 2022 at 6:10:27 PM

So okay with killing many people, and personally planning to kill several thousands/millions? Sure to him.

As for spoilers, we can just spoiler the whole entry on YMMV.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#315731: Jun 18th 2022 at 6:12:45 PM

I am not saying it's common for the setting but I will have an issue if it is so common in the series but it's straight up not even illegal. I mean I guess there could be some that are especially awful even by that standard, but this is a major concern for me.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#315732: Jun 18th 2022 at 6:12:48 PM

@Ordeaux: I assume you’re referring to the Does Not Like Men entry? Yeah, that’s clearly a sarcastic jab. It’s not literally legal, it’s just that a lot of sex crimes happen in a short amount of time.

Like, if it were an issue… the page wouldn’t be where you heard it from, it’d have been me

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Jun 18th 2022 at 9:14:54 AM

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#315733: Jun 18th 2022 at 6:13:49 PM

Okay now for my half of our collaboration for Rivers of London (to anyone who likes urban fantasy, I’d serious recommending checking it out its one of my favourite series).

As Mir rightly said, unfortunately despite being the main antagonist of the first major arc of the series, as well as a racist, classist powerful Evil Sorcerer with a love for particularly cruel deaths, the Second Faceless Man has redeeming traits.

Fortunately, the same can’t be said about his predecessor and mentor, the Original Faceless Man Albert Woodville-Gentle.

Who Is he:

A wealthy, handsome charming man in 1957 Albert attended Oxford University, it was their he discovered the exclusive dinner club the “Little Crocodiles” hosted by the theology professor Geoffrey Wheatcroft. Whilst on the suffice seemingly just another eccentric club for the wealthy students, in secret Wheatcroft was in fact a retired member of the Society of the Wise (the main male tradition of British Magic), who had taken to showing spells and even illegally teaching some of his students its secrets.

Whilst to most this was just an amusement, where they learned a few basic tricks, Albert was fascinated by the potential power at display and studied all Wheatcroft could teach him, until his skills surpassed his teacher.

What Does he Do:

After graduation Albert moved to London with big dreams for power. In 1966 he met Lady Helena Linden-Limmer (the heir to the Society of the Rose, the female tradition of British Magic), seducing her the two formed a relationship, with them both refining their skills and teaching each other what they knew (whilst as engaging in all the wild sixties fun available to a pair rich aristocrats with magical powers).

However, behind his charming front Albert had a much darker side, and already set his sights on the growing world of organised crime of the East End. Following Lady Helena desiring to set up a charity to help provide medical treatments for poverty stricken citizens of poor countries (as well as carry on her research into using magic to heal) she once again found Albert, who happily agreed to provide funds and manage her affairs in London asking only that she continue to share what she discovered with him.

Setting himself up in Soho, Albert faced issues with the local Towie Mob who controlled the area. When their boss sent local muscle Larry the Lark to give him a warning of who controlled the area, Albert responded by organising a party for them at a Greek restaurant, inviting all the connected and important figures in Soho, where at the end of meal they were presented with a pater containing Larry’s still very much alive decapitated head, begging for someone to kill him.

Now content that everyone knew not to cross him (and happily committing a number of undisclosed other brutal punishments on those who still ended up doing so), Albert focused on his main work. Setting up his club “the Garden of Unearthly Delights” (more commonly known as the strip club of Doctor Moreau) where he promised all manner of sexual depravities to anyone who could pay for it. Placing the still alive and in agony Larry’s head in a glass box at the entrance, forced to welcome visitors whilst still begging someone to kill him, as well as rigging his soul to act as a demon trap (magical landmine) to kill anyone who tried to go into the restricted area.

Not content with just providing standard depravities, Albert kidnaped numerous people and used the techniques that Lady Helena had developed to heal, to transform the poor individuals into beast men (due to the experimental nature of the transformation many did not survive the transformation), then forced them to work at his club as prostitutes or occasionally muscle.

The full extent of his depravities is implied to go much further than what we see. With Nightingale deliberately refusing to let Peter venture further into the backrooms of the club were the remains are.

Having ensured the criminal element would not interfere with his activities through brutality, Albert likewise made sure the law was off his back by setting up an arrangement with the local vice chief DCI “Greasy” Johnson, that he could have access to as many Cat Girls as he liked to do whatever he liked provided he ensured that no one would ever investigate him.

Albert likewise acquired a trio of enslaved Pale Ladies (extremely dangerous fae) who he also set to work in his club, as well as experimenting on one of them to give her Vagina Dentata, to use her as an assassin.

Albert’s activities carried on until 1979 when someone tipped off Lady Helena to what he was doing. Realising she was a threat, Albert went to her hotel room and tried to kill her. However, in the ensuring magical duel he overused his powers and ended up causing himself a debilitating stroke.

Forced into early retirement, Albert went into hiding ending up in a care home outside of Oxford (whilst Lady Helena was able to rescue some of his victims, although it was impossible undo the modifications so the best she could do was set them up in comfort far away from society, the majority of them simply died in their cells when he never came back to the club).

This is how he stayed until the 90’s when he was tracked down by Varvara Sidorovna on the employ of the new Faceless Man, who had learned of Albert’s existence from Geoffrey and was also eager to learn more. Setting Albert in a comfortable apartment in London’s Shakespeare block with Varvara and a series of nurses to look after him, in exchange Albert taught his successor everything he knew as well as giving him access to all his old criminal contacts, allowing him to build up his own powerbase (and track down the aforementioned Pale Ladies).

We briefly meet Albert in “Whispers Underground” when Peter and Lesley are interviewing the Little Crocodiles in the hopes of trying to track down the Faceless Man. Playing the role of a harmless, charming old man Albert managed to put their minds at ease and even persuaded Lesley to reveal her disfigured face to him (with it being implied this might have led to his successor approaching her with the offer of fixing her if she switched sides).

Informed of the meeting by Varvara, the Faceless Man had Albert removed from his home to his base, leaving behind another demon trap in the hopes of killing them when they returned. However, whilst waiting their Albert died of seeming natural causes, and thus his student abandoned his body for the police to find.

Any Freudian Excuse or Redeeming Traits:

Nothing that stands up. He made Lady Helena believe he loved her, but he was just using her for the knowledge and had no hesitations killing her the moment she became a threat to his organisation.

Its mentioned he gives his prisoners certain comforts in their cells, but Peter simply compares this to human traffickers who make the conditions more comfortable so the victims pose less problems.

When we meet Albert, he comes across as a polite, easy going cheerful old man who is eager to help the police. But its heavily implied the whole persona was an act, especially as he was quite charming back when he was a notorious dangerous gangster.

He served as the mentor to the present Faceless Man, but their relationship isn’t gone into in any depth beyond the transactional. He never even mentions Albert.

Heinous Standard:

Rivers of London has a high standard (the first book for instance features a serial killing ghost who murders eight people, including an infant, and nearly starts a race riot – before anyone asks he doesn’t count, ghosts don’t have moral agency), but Albert is well over the line. His sex trafficking operation is like nothing else in the series. Even the present Faceless Man despite being a more powerful gangster (to the point he’s effectively a crime boss) and sorcerer, doesn’t involve himself in anything along those lines.

Conclusion:

I believe the original Faceless Man is a keeper.

Edited by MGD107 on Jun 18th 2022 at 6:29:46 AM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#315734: Jun 18th 2022 at 6:15:20 PM

[up][up] Oh if that is the case that makes me much less concerned. the entry really made it seem like that was the case [lol]. Though still will create some heinous standard problems if its that common.

I will read the EP in a sec.

GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
SailorVenus372 Since: Nov, 2019 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#315739: Jun 18th 2022 at 7:46:00 PM

Dragon Ball Z: Dynasty: Cell takes his canonical crimes and adds to them here. After Piccolo fights him and he escapes, Cell decides to manipulate a little girl into leading him to a town’s inhabitants, and he absorbs them before her eyes, traumatizing her. Later, he holds the infant Trunks hostage in an attempt to get what he wants. It works, and he reaches his perfect form. At the Cell Games, Cell declared his intentions to destroy the planet and beyond, brutally killing many around him and ruining multiple lives for his sick amusement, making sure Gohan is Forced to Watch him kill Bardock.

How’s this look?

Edited by SailorVenus372 on Jun 18th 2022 at 7:54:12 AM

Get Snuck-Up On.”
Melinda Since: Dec, 2019 Relationship Status: Puppy love
#315740: Jun 18th 2022 at 7:51:11 PM

Sure to Albert (although that series has always been a bit too complicated for me to rget into so far).

  • The Kaiju Preservation Society: Rob Sanders, Jamie's boss, is a third-generation Corrupt Corporate Executive who is introduced demoting a dedicated employee to a demeaning commission job with no benefits in the middle of a pandemic. He later reveals that he did this solely to win a $1 bet on whether a certain number of employees would take that mistreatment over unemployment and that he makes such bets constantly and with no emotion but satisfaction. He also sells out his company to a competitor, getting everyone laid off. However, these loathsome deeds pale next to Sanders’s effors to abduct Kaiju from another dimension and harvest and sale their nuclear energy, ordering the murder of several government agents to facilitate this. He also plans to hide the evidence by letting one kaijuself-destruct in the middle of a Canadian city while planning to profit financially and politically from the fallout of an apparent nuclear first strike. Sanders also threatens to kill several Kaiju Preservation Society members slowly and painfully if they antagonize him during some Just Between You and Me gloating. Completely lacking in decency, despite providing some comic relief, Sanders is one of the vilest villains John Scalzi has ever written.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#315742: Jun 18th 2022 at 8:15:12 PM

Also another thing. I have I possible caption for the Nazo image on the Fan Works page.

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/nazo.png
"Obviously, you won't resist. So, let's see... How many rings you have left, TO STOP THIS!"

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jun 18th 2022 at 8:16:22 AM

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#315743: Jun 18th 2022 at 8:23:23 PM

[tup] to Coffin, rob, and albert

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#315744: Jun 18th 2022 at 8:53:43 PM

After a long wait, the final defeat of this guy has being finally translated, the manga is old and I already knew the spoilers, but it feels good to finally be able to do him. Just right for Father's day.

Setting

Apocalypse Zero is a toku-inspired manga following Kakugo Hagakure, the grandson of the infamous war criminal Shiro Hagakure who fights against his sibling Lord Harara, who is using Shiro's creations, the Tactical Weapons for evil.

Our candidate in this series full of gore and brutality but also heroism and bravery?

Who is Shiro Hagakure?

The creator of the Steel Balls techniques, the Tactical Fiends (monsters) and the famous Zero Armor, Shiro Hagakure was a soldier of Imperial Japan that believed in the superiority of the Japanese race to Take Over the World.

Preaching this to his army, Shiro would experiment on prisioners, civilians and soldiers alike, to practique his supernatural skills. This would lead to the creation of the Tactical Fiends by mutating humans into horrific creatures that are a satire of themselves and whom he planned to use in America.

Shiro's twisted masterpieces are the armors weared by both Kakugo and Harara, with the Zero armor being created with the brutal human sacrifice and sealing of the souls of thousands of Chinese soldiers in captivity, who would be brutalized and dehumanized in ways so extreme that their souls were Driven To Insanity.

This resulted in a powerful armor that was also unstable, which lead to Shiro creating a new one but...with a twist here.

Shiro would use the baby of a loyal Japanese soldier for his new armor, intending to use his innocence for his new weapon. However, the baby's mother would oposse and this and eventually get killed for it, but her soul would fuse with the Kasumi Armor, lying dormant inside it.

Eventually, Japan got defeated and Shiro was executed as a scapegoat for the Japanese goverment to hide their research. But Shiro would find a way to survive using his powers, waiting for his next chance when the Kasumi armor would corrupt his grandson, fusing his soul with Mei's grieving spirit and birthing Lord Harara, who would use Shiro's technology to cause cause until threatening the entire world after hijacking the G Boddhisava, a powerful nuclear mecha created by a difunct buddhist group.

Shiro would hijack the Boddhisava during Harara and Kakugo's final duel, killing Harara's loyal minion when he tries to stop him and showing his own armor. During the fight, Shiro waits until Mei's spirit is finally exorcized by the heroes, considering that Mei's Kill All Humans attitude conflicts with his own desire to rebuild the Japanese Empire.

After that, Shiro would take control of the G Boddhisava with the goal of using it for his world conquest, cheerfully stepping over Chinese cities with plans to return to Japan and crown himself Emperor. Realizing that Kakugo already died and knowing his old body is nearing its limit, Shiro would decide to use the body of Kakugo's girlfriend Horie and forces her to drink aenesthesics, criticizing her for not sacrificing her life for "Japan".

However, Harara would reveal being alive with his original identity restored and learning from Mei's misery, using his power to revive Kakugo and beat Shiro. Shiro then would activate his Kamikaze attack, intending to kill his "ungrateful" grandsons and threatening to damage the core of the machine, threatening the world itself.

Then Harara would take over the Boddhisava from him while Kakugo kicks him outside the machine, allowing Harara to unleash all the machine's power on Shiro, finally killing him.

Heinous standard?

Fanatical Japanese Soldier that experiments on civilians and PO Ws and even babies from his own country. All of them ending in a Fate Worse than Death for decades until Kakugo is finally able to save them during the main story.

The Corrupter towards Mei and Harara.

Then, after his resurrection, Shiro proceeds to use the Boddhisava for more destruction and death, threatening to destroy it and unleash radiation across the world after his defeat.

Mitigant traits?

He loves his country.

Ok, good joke. Shiro is a believer in Japanese supremacy, but this clearly doesn't translate in a love for his own people, as he is ready to brutalize the families of his loyal soldiers for his experiments and his plans to conquer Japan to crown himself Emperor would have killed even more of his compatriots.

He shows some Pragmatic Villainy when he allows Horie Tsukino to escape from the Boddhisava and reach Harara, but that's because Horie would help Kakugo to sucessfully exorcize Mei and allow him to take over the Boddhisava, openly saying than this is a case of Evil Versus Oblivion, with Shiro as the disgusting evil of Japanese fascism against Mei's Tragic Villain oblivion.

Verdict?

Shiro is a WW 2 War Criminal whose actions defined the setting. All evil in the story can be traced to him, from Mei's existance as a grieving spirit to the mooks themselves being a product of Shiro's experiments on humans.

His own grandson Kakugo—a traditionalist that loves his family and his nation—defines Shiro as "A fiend in human skin", a description that fits him very well.

He is considered the most evil man of Asia, with his own son dedicating all his life to dismantling Shiro's legacy

Happy Father's Day

Edited by KazuyaProta on Jun 18th 2022 at 11:02:06 AM

Watch me destroying my country
Melinda Since: Dec, 2019 Relationship Status: Puppy love
Malady (X-Troper)
#315746: Jun 18th 2022 at 9:05:51 PM

Sandbox.C Ms By Director is too big

Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#315747: Jun 18th 2022 at 9:06:49 PM

[tup] Shiro

[up] Why has nobody done anything about that yet. I will just fix it myself.

TellAll111 Since: Jun, 2010
#315748: Jun 18th 2022 at 9:37:35 PM

[tup] for Archer, the Controller, Dimentio, the commander, Great Tiger, Fischer, Oliver, Cell, Coffin, Rob Sanders, Albert, and Shiro.

[tdown] for the Stranger, the Crew Cut Man, and the Septenarius.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#315749: Jun 18th 2022 at 9:43:58 PM

I fixed the directors page by splitting it.

VengefulBale Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight from Nowhere Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Bishie Gijinka Meta Knight
#315750: Jun 18th 2022 at 10:05:03 PM

Yes/[tup] to Archer, the Controller, Ficmentio, the Commander, Great Tiger (not the boxer one), Fischer, Oliver, Cell, Coffin, Rob Sanders, Albert, and Shiro.

Prettiest Meta Knight Gijinka, ngl

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