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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

SailorVenus372 Since: Nov, 2019 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#315676: Jun 18th 2022 at 1:47:39 PM

He does, but it’s less redeeming and more out of excitement of reaching his perfect form.

And he also knew that if he went back on his word, well, he’d be obliterated by Vegeta.

Pragmatic Villainy.

Edited by SailorVenus372 on Jun 18th 2022 at 1:51:51 AM

Get Snuck-Up On.”
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#315677: Jun 18th 2022 at 1:52:35 PM

Vegeta should've obliterated him once he got the kid back.

Sure to Cell.

SailorVenus372 Since: Nov, 2019 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#315678: Jun 18th 2022 at 1:54:21 PM

[up] He should’ve, but unfortunately that isn’t what happened.

Cell pretty much threw the kid like a rag doll as a distraction too after being given what he wanted.

Edited by SailorVenus372 on Jun 18th 2022 at 1:56:07 AM

Get Snuck-Up On.”
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#315679: Jun 18th 2022 at 2:04:11 PM

[tup] Cell, I guess I have a partner in crime in proposing Fan Works villains [lol]

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#315680: Jun 18th 2022 at 2:05:15 PM

[tup] Oliver and Cell

It's Spooky Month!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#315681: Jun 18th 2022 at 2:05:59 PM

Pending stuff:

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#315682: Jun 18th 2022 at 2:07:36 PM

Also kind of weird Cell has more CM incarnations than Frieza.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#315684: Jun 18th 2022 at 2:17:33 PM

[up][up] Eh, it's fairly close, and I'm sure there are more of Frieza out there somewhere.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#315685: Jun 18th 2022 at 2:21:30 PM

Sure to Cell

Alrighty, a long awaited collab between Scraggle and I begins today. Everyone, brace yourselves, between us and a few others, we've got as many as 23 potentials heading this way.

What is the work?

Comics' Greatest World was an initiative by Dark Horse Comics to create their own comic universe akin to DC or Marvel. In essence, it features a wide variety of superheroes and villains duking it out in four primary cities: Arcadia, Golden City, Steel Harbor, and Cinnibar Flats. All of these are connected by the Vortex, an interdimensional portal that creates metahumans and causes powers. There were several prominent heroes throughout the era, including King Tiger, Barb Wire, Ghost, and the vigilante X, to say nothing of the eventual (and short lived) reboot called Project Black Sky. Today, however, we're not starting off with one of these heroes I mentioned. We're starting off with the closest thing that exists to a Greater-Scope Villain in this universe.

Ironically enough, it's also one of our most uncertain ones, but might as well get the ball rolling with our biggest villain.

Who is the Septenarius? What does it do?

The Septenarius, also called the Seven in One, is the unseen leader of the Reaver Swarm, an amalgamation of various different alien species that serve it blindingly loyally. At some point in the past, the Septenarius stole a powerful alien artifact called the Motor, which gave them practically unlimited power in the cosmos. Adopting a Might Makes Right mentality, the Sep then created the Reaver Swarm, using them to go across the galaxy wiping out any species it deemed inferior, declaring them "impure" and contaminated. The being that would later be known as Vortex once fled the Storm after stealing the Motor for himself, causing the Sep to declare him a blasphemer; for a long time, if Vortex even set foot on a planet, the Sep would deem it a blasphemy and destroy the entire planet in retaliation. It wasn't until he was on Earth and the Vortex opened and trapped him in it that he hid from the Sep for a few years.

Once Vortex wakes up, the Swarm figures out his location, causing the Sep to send its Destroyers after the planet four times in a row in an attempt to wipe out all life on it - and this is after another incident on Earth where some of its agents massacred a bunch of soldiers in the area for a completely unrelated reason. Luckily, Vortex manages to stop them, but a conflict with Titan that kills his only human ally leaves him unwilling to protect Earth. Unluckily for readers, this is right around the time that the comic line went belly up, so the upcoming and inevitable conflict with the Sep doesn't end up coming.

Is it heinous enough?

Oh easily, this is nowhere near the problem. It's wiped out hundreds of thousands of species' and intends to eventually exterminate all intelligent life. It's so powerful that it doesn't jack the standard for everyone else, but it's moooooore than bad enough.

Any mitigating factors? Freudian Excuse?

Here's the problem - the Septenarius never actually appears, not even for a single image, because the comic went under before it could actually appear as it was planned to. Now, with our OV rulings, I think it's still okay - the Septenarious gets a surprising amount of character for something that doesn't even appear. It's a Might Makes Right fundamentalist dedicated to wiping out all life it deems less than them, is so dedicated to its mission that it destroyed entire planets just because Vortex touched them, and sends Destroyers after Earth to wipe out all life on it four times in rapid succession - and just to top it off, Vortex reveals that it's also a major hypocrite, as it stole the artifact that made them so powerful in the first place, so the crusade is based off a lie. Basically, the way I interpreted the new OV stuff is that if the person still gets enough character despite not appearing that a single brief appearance would be enough to let them in easily, then they're still fair game, and that's where we are here - if it appeared for even a second, there'd be no question.

The only thing that does give me pause is its nickname, the Seven in One. No one ever elaborates on what it means, and the pronouns used to describe the Septenarius are inconsistent - sometimes it's singular, sometimes it's plural, sometimes it has the "the", sometimes it's spoken like a name. Basically, as a result of never seeing it, we're not 100% sure what it actually is. The only thing that's consistent is that whatever it is, it is consistently treated as a singluar entity, but I can't confirm what that really means - whether it's a singular being or just a group of seven that are treated as a single entity. I wish I could give more details, but because it never actually appeared, we just don't know what it is, so while it's consistently talked about as a singular entity (almost like a deity), we don't know what it truly is.

Final verdict?

I personally lean yes, but it's a very odd case and I'm totally down for discussion. Either way, happy to kick things off, and Scraggle will be following up with some more very soon!

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#315686: Jun 18th 2022 at 2:33:05 PM

I'm abstaining; arbitrary, I know, but my dislike of the new rules...especially when it comes to comics, which are more visual than, say, literature and video games.

BTW, Dark Horse is still around; why isn't the line?

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#315687: Jun 18th 2022 at 2:34:19 PM

Yeah. I’m a nay here myself. Never appearing here is kind of an issue for me in a comic with such a big line and massive amount of keepers with ambiguous nature.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#315688: Jun 18th 2022 at 2:34:55 PM

[up][up] My best guess is it didn't do well enough.

Abstaining.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#315689: Jun 18th 2022 at 2:35:59 PM

[up][up][up] The 90s comic crash combined with fairly low sales killed the line. Like I said, they tried to reboot it, and it didn't last very long either.

[up][up] For what it's worth, the only comic that actually deals with the Sep is Out of the Vortex, which is only 12 issues, so it's not exactly around for the massive line. I do get the hesitation, though.

[down] Yep, and Scrags went through, like, 100 of them himself [lol]

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Jun 18th 2022 at 5:36:53 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#315690: Jun 18th 2022 at 2:36:27 PM

BTW, if this is accurate, looks like there are 176 total issues. (It's a wikipedia link I had to use tinyurl for due to punctuation).

Edited by ACW on Jun 18th 2022 at 5:37:10 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#315691: Jun 18th 2022 at 2:36:40 PM

Unfortunately, I think I'll lean [tdown].

Like if there weren't 20 characters coming in through here who we see and this thing being so ambiguous we don't even know if it's a group or a guy or something. I think this is a bit too much sadly.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#315692: Jun 18th 2022 at 2:37:54 PM

Also, I realized I kinda made it ambiguous - its actions are seen clear as day, repeatedly, so the offscreen issue is limited just to itself. Just wanted to clarify cause I realized I wasn't as clear about it as I could've been.

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Jun 18th 2022 at 5:39:13 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#315693: Jun 18th 2022 at 2:38:54 PM

Yeah, I figured as such; still abstaining.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#315694: Jun 18th 2022 at 2:39:19 PM

I get that. But when we don't even know what it is?

Even our other off-page villains usually we know what or who they are?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#315695: Jun 18th 2022 at 2:40:02 PM

Not sure on the Septenarius.

Also I'm gonna be busy tomorrow so gonna talk about Season 7 of Fear the Walking Dead now.

No one counts. Everyone has a loved one, Freudian Excuse, etc., etc., so on and so forth. The season finale introduces a group called PADRE that spends its time "rescuing" children and babies by sending their agents to kidnap them from their parents and killing anyone who stops them. So who knows, maybe someone from Season 8 will count.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#315696: Jun 18th 2022 at 2:50:34 PM

Yeah, sounds like the character is too mysterious to really qualify.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#315697: Jun 18th 2022 at 2:51:15 PM

I think I'm gonna vote [tdown] the Septenarius. In something like a comic or movie, I think the villain should at least appear onscreen to get a full grasp of their character.

Why so serious?
Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#315699: Jun 18th 2022 at 3:06:06 PM

[tup] War Witch duo, Fischer, Oliver and Cell

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#315700: Jun 18th 2022 at 3:14:58 PM

[tup]Oliver

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

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