During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
George, Silver, Three Kings, Adrian, Rejack, Doc, Sotsky, Waldess, Myrthalen, Kyurem.
Cut Lin.
Finnegan, Will.
If Horror Hunger is irrelevant to why he becomes a Villainous Glutton, then sure.
for Kyurem.
Second candidate from Battlecats.
Who Is He?
Eltoreq is The Dragon of the Darkats, and the Evil Counterpart / Arch-Enemy to Zorien of the Battlecats.
What Has He Done?
As cubs, Eltoreq and Zorien were best friends both chosen to train to become Battlecats in the White Marsh Islands. As Eltoreq got older, he grew much more bitter and spiteful of everyone—especially Zorien, even though Zorien tried to maintain his friendship with him. A few years later, after being rejected to be a Battlecat, Eltoreq allied himself with the Umbra Raiders, descendants of foreign conquerors who sought to end the Ermand Dynasty. Eltoreq led attacks on his own country, Il-Shavaar, that resulted in the deaths of hundreds; he even personally sought out his parents and murdered them both with no remorse.
In the present, Eltoreq first shows up while the Battlecats are on a mission to hunt down the Dire Beast. He demonstrates how much the Blood Moon enhances his powers by curb-stomping Kaleera, nearly crushing her head until Vaela revives her later. He retreats to rejoin the Darkats, while the Battlecats continue their mission to kill the Dire Beast. When he discovers Kaleera still lives, he tries to make it up to Valadar by going back and killing the Battlecats, but at this point Valadar's plans have been set in motion, and he tells Eltoreq to ignore them for now. Later, he joins the Darkats and Umbra Raiders as they raid various cities throughout the country Greenspyre, killing any civilians or soldiers who resist. He also participates in taking over North Blade Arena during Rorinhal and later retreats to a cave with the Blood Priests, using magic to keep the Blood Moon functional so Valadar's Raiders can sack Valderia's capital and Rorinclaw will plague the whole country.
Eventually the Battlecats (sans Kelthan) confront Eltoreq in Il-Shavaar to stop him and the Blood Priests and revert Tegei back to normal. The Battlecats kill the Blood Priests, while Zorien confronts Eltoreq by himself after launching his weapon onto a sharp, spiked portion of a cliff. He forgives Eltoreq for everything he's done, but refuses to let him live because of everything he's done.
Cue Zorien kicking Eltoreq into a mountain and watching as that cliff piece falls down and impales him.
Mitigating Factors?
He used to be Zorien's childhood friend. But as he got older during his training sessions, he also grew much colder and bitter. It's never explained why this happened, and flashbacks show that Zorien retained his friendship with Eltoreq, but Eltoreq grew to resent him—especially after he was chosen to be a Battlecat and not him (although Eltoreq was rejected because he devolved into a bitter and hateful feline). On top of this, Eltoreq doesn't seem to really share everyone else's beliefs about the Lizard God, nor why Valadar is obsessed with the Mark of the Fang. To him, "real power lies elsewhere. Real power lies in taking what you want, if only because you can."
Heinous Standard Issues?
So this is gonna be tricky compared to Myrthalen, as Eltoreq mainly serves as one of Valadar's main henchmen and isn't behind the whole plot. But I'll see if I can get things down.
In terms of scale, he's on the same level as Valadar's other allies Jarnoch, Birch, and Gheeta. All four of them participate is destroying surveillance posts around Greenspyre, capturing Greenspyre towns, killing those who resist, aiding Valadar in his schemes, and trying to bring about an endless cycle of Rorinclaw. Normally I would write off Eltoreq as just another member of a Quirky Miniboss Squad at best, but Volume 3 sets his malicious intent higher than the others for one specific reason.
He became an Umbra Raider before he joined Valadar and before he chose to aid him in his quest to defeat King Ermand III. He led attacks on his own country, sacked his own towns, and killed his own people because he wanted to embrace his sadistic nature. Now Gheeta follows a similar backstory; she holds a grudge against Kaleera for becoming a Battlecat instead of her, and she personally kills Kaleera's mother and watches as Valadar kills her father before bragging about it later. The difference here is that Eltoreq murdered his own parents and attacked his own country just because he could. And according to Zorien, committing such atrocities is nothing short of blasphemy for Il-Shavaarians.
Anyways, to get into everyone else, they don't count. King Ermand II was very arrogant and his inaction led to destructive consequences in Valderia, but it wasn't him causing the destruction as opposed to simply ignoring it to fuel his own ego. And he eventually realizes what a crappy king he was and exiled himself. Gheeta is a petty bitch, but since we don't know her backstory except that she holds a grudge against Kaleera, she doesn't stack up to Eltoreq exactly. Jarnoch is a malicious necromancer, but he off-handedly mentions that Eltoreq didn't deserve to be killed by the Battlecats—even though he thought he was a fool. Birch has a legitimate Villainous Friendship with Valadar. Valadar himself, on top of his aforementioned relationship with Birch and being driven by the death of Ryah, is nothing short of a Tragic Villain who got manipulated by someone who used his emotions against him and let it brew into anger that led to wanton destruction. His arc concludes with him stuck in a jail cell catatonic and murmuring Ryah's name over and over again, still unable to accept that he (unintentionally) killed her. So definite no to him.
Most other villains only show up for one issue and don't leave too much of an impact.
Final Verdict?
This guy I'm not sure on. I'll let you guys decide.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.- Faceless: Gordon is Nathalie's main henchman, and a gross sadist in his own right. A necrophiliac serial rapist who takes advantage of the women Nathalie captures so often she's stopped being surprised by it, Gordon is also the hatchetman for Nathalie and Flamard's scheme. Gordon kills his victims with chainsaws and power drills, and though he never says a word he takes evil pleasure in every one of his murders.
- Wild Wild West: Moses Brown participated in the slaughter of an entire family back in the day, which earns him a bounty on his head placed by the surviving little girl of the family. In the present day, Moses Brown has taken to exploiting both sides of the Civil War, regardless of how much worse he makes it. He tips off the Comanche to caravans and soldiers, leading to dozens of people being massacred, while simultaneously attempting to sell the Comanche weapons he neglects to tell them have been aged to the point of uselessness. With nobody he won't sell out for a buck, Moses Brown is a bottom feeder, universally despised even in the heat of the Civil War.
- Red Sonja:
- Marvel Feature #2: Rejak the Tracker is a savage brigand who, to spite Red Sonja for stealing from him, decides to torment her by murdering everyone she comes across. Rejak massacres a tavern full of people and dozens of soldiers Red Sonja has befriended, killing a man she's befriended and mocking her by propping his body up on a pole, tormenting her with such relentlessness even the hardened Red Sonja starts to become fearful. Rejak climaxes his torment by pointlessly killing a bunch of innocent people at a farm, cornering Red Sonja there and promising to torture her to death if she doesn't return what she stole from him.
- Red Sonja #15: The Three Dead Kings, Nubis, Kaukasis, and Mongollis, are ageless vampire monarchs, rulers of a long-dead kingdom who feed on innocent women. Through their human servants Sharlo and his son Flurdelie, the Three Kings have fed upon countless women through the ages. When Flurdelie convinces the Three Kings Sharlo has ceased being useful, the Three Kings reward Sharlo's long service by reducing him to a monstrous, plantlike monstrosity that feels nothing but a constant, maddening hunger.
Kyurem.
On Lin. Yes, she’s bad. But her revealed Freudian Excuse past would’ve certainly fucked her up bad (look what Connal alone did to Saphira’s Mental State) even if it doesn’t justify what she did.
Sirius...he might count, but he also might not reach the heinousness standard compared to Lin and Connal, or even Solaris who can’t count because he has loved ones, as twisted his care may be. I’m fine with doing an EP of Sirius if nobody objects.
And Ace might be Magnificent Bastard worthy
Edited by SailorVenus372 on Jun 4th 2022 at 6:22:55 AM
“Get Snuck-Up On.”
Eltoreq
I will get Kyurem's writeup out now as well so that he can go with Enhalus.
- Defenders of Warmth: Kyurem is given Adaptational Villainy and becomes a true monster. Kyurem seeks to eat the spirits of all that exist to satisfy his hunger. In the past, Kyurem went on a rampage, eating the spirits of every single human in the entire world until eventually all of humanity was extinct. Kyruem was eventually defeated but not killed as he survived but was in a heavily weakened state. When Kyruem got Tornadus, Thundurus, and Landorus under his control, he would freeze over the world. Kyurem gains control of more and more Pokémon until he is able to summon Zekrom, merge with him, and continue his plan to consume the entire land.
It's a little surprising we don't look at many pre-code horror comics here. Plenty of gruesome imagery and macabre villains, even if the stories aren't consistently well-written.
The story i'd like to discuss here is from Chamber Of Chills #14(Nov 1952). It's nothing to write home about but it stands out to me for two reasons:
1. The story and eponymous character are called The Spider Man long before Peter Parker debuted in 1962.
2. He racks up an impressive rapsheet for a six-page story(which can be read here for those interested
).
Dr. Charles Frage
Dr. Frage is a college professor who studies Arachnids at a French university in the "nineteenth century", which has earned him the moniker "the Spider-Man" by his students and peers. He even calls himself that in one panel. Like his more renowned successor, Frage's genius alienates his colleagues, especially when he proposes a formula he created from Spider DNA. See where this is going?
Anyway Frage experiments in secret on a dog that he injects with the serum. That night, the poor pooch mutates into a monstrous canine-spider monster and escapes. It attacks a female student but is thankfully put down by some heroic young men. Word of the experiment goes around and while Frage does point out that this could've been avoided if the school board had given him proper funding, they kick him off the premises for being a Mad Scientist. Apparently this Spider-Man didn't have a wise uncle in his life, because he spitefully decides to continue his experiments for revenge.
Frage not only mutates more animals, but also kidnaps several random people off the street as guinea pigs. These poor souls become grotesque and mindless human-spider hybrids that Frage uses as attack dogs. The madman soon decides it's time to unveil his discoveries: by unleashing his mutant arachnids on the University that fired him, and subsequently watches, laughing as the monsters maul and feed on the helpless students and staff.
In the midst of the chaos, the citizens learn to fight back the spiders with torches, which enrages the Doctor to see his life's work ruined. Escaping back to his laboratory, the other spider-mutants have broken from their cages and are ready to pay back the man who tortured and mutated them. The evil doctor sputters that he's their master as he's backed into a corner. But it's not the Spiders that get him-it's the web they've weaved around him. Frage is trapped in the web like his namesake as spilled chemicals start a fire, burning down the lab, the monsters, and the man who created them.
I'm still vouching they fit him into Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse though.
Heinousness
I don't know if Frage's archetype is too common in these books but even so he does a lot of damage. Human experimentation, attempted mass-murder through spider-monsters, animal cruelty, he evidently didn't get the With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility memo. He may have specific targets for revenge but he doesn't give a shit if he has to experiment on or kill innocent bystanders. His argument that his spider-serum can benefit humanity is also pretty laughable given he considers rampaging spider-monstrosities a successful outcome, and his reaction to being called a lunatic is siccing these abominations on the school.
Verdict
I'm honestly surprised nobody's thought of a Spidey villain who controls Giant monster spiders.
Oh and
.
Well, I'm down for Frage.
Also, I got one thanks to Mir from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, namely from the Last Ronin alternate continuity miniseries. Our villain? Oroku Hiroto.
Who is Oroku Hiroto?
The grandson of Oroku Saku and the son of Karai, who is now kept in a cryogenic tube alive. Hiroto is the dictator of New York, having slaughtered the Hamato clan years before in a brutal ambush. The only survivor was Michelangelo who wages a one-man war, with the aged April O'Neil, and her and Casey Jones' son. Hiroto is a horrifically brutal dictator. The people are beaten, tyrannized, executed, etc. Hiroto is also a horrible boss, abusing and murdering his men at the drop of a hat.
Seriously, he threatens to kill them if they don't give him a good spar. Then murders them in the fight anywyas. Has them slaughtered for failure very painfully with their heads left out for the crows. Upon Michelangelo and heroes making some leeway against him, Hiroto initiates martial law on New York with intent to execute vast swaths of citizens should even one put a toe out of line.
Things come down to Mikey managing to take the fight to Hiroto, who reveals he kept his mother alive just out of hate and spite, before murdering her. The fight takes them all over the fortress, ending as Michelangelo manages to deal him mortal wounds and finishes him off, albeit dying soon after...having liberated the world from the Shredder at last.
Mitigating issues?
Heinousness is zero issue, just read the above. Mitigating issues? Hilariously subverted. Hiroto seems to love his mom, keeping her alive in stasis. Then he reveals he despised her and kept her alive for pure hatred so she could see he was better than her.
Conclusion?
Easy keeper.
Has anyone brought up Miles Warren? He's pretty sick and twisted — though I'm not sure whether he qualifies.
Edited by Arawn999 on Jun 4th 2022 at 9:16:26 AM

Edited by KazuyaProta on Jun 4th 2022 at 6:00:39 AM
Watch me destroying my country