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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#312026: May 14th 2022 at 5:47:35 AM

Eh, personally I am a keep for them, if the Fic is still viewable, cutting the entries is not going to re-delete it. That is just me though and I doubt I will shift opinion.

[tup] Grigori

Bow to the Prototype
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#312027: May 14th 2022 at 8:47:42 AM

We're making good progress. I hope to finalize the Black Clover entries today (VVV, where's that image you had? We also need a quote and header), but besides Dirty Pair, here's all that's pending (I think):

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#312028: May 14th 2022 at 8:54:51 AM

  • "After Shakespeare": Clark Redmond is the greedy CEO of Mohawk Enterprises. A shady real estate agent looking to sell more rooms in his apartments, Redmond hopes to start a gang war in order to scare the original tenants out of their homes. Redmond has one of his associates manipulate some younger gangsters to kill a rival leader, while having guns sold to the gangs to further the conflict and violence, no matter how many people might die.

It's Spooky Month!
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#312029: May 14th 2022 at 9:23:44 AM

Here are Lucifero images with captions:

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/06_654.jpg
All of you. Bow... your heads.

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/06_654.jpg
The upper devils are the equals of the Dark Triad. The lower devils are even more powerful... And... If the final devil, Lucifero emerges... The world is finished.

TiMBer1566 kittykat from Virginia Since: Nov, 2018 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
kittykat
#312030: May 14th 2022 at 10:13:38 AM

Found these on Voldemort's page:

  • Even Evil Has Loved Ones: "Loved ones" is a stretch but Voldemort does seem to have a certain degree of fondness for Nagini that he doesn't for anyone or anything else. Though this might be self-love as usual, since Nagini is a Horcrux — he might only care about the piece of his own soul that's inside her.
  • Even Evil Has Standards:
    • Shows contempt toward Wormtail, though it's uncertain whether it's because of Wormtail's betrayal of the Potters or because he's a whiny little coward who switches sides at the drop of a hat. Most likely it's Voldemort's huge ego where he imagined loyal, competent Death Eaters like Bellatrix or Lucius to bring him back rather than a Dirty Coward with nowhere else to go. Being a last resort for someone who lived 12 years as a rat is not a pleasant truth to realize.
    • Like with the Death Eaters, Voldemort absolutely disliked Fenrir Greyback's preverse and barbaric personality and it was apparent that he was only using Greyback and would dispose of him as soon as possible. Though this may have just been Voldemort's contempt for half-breeds generally.

Of course, they don't hold merit as the entries themselves even imply they aren't straight examples, so should I delete them?

Edited by TiMBer1566 on May 14th 2022 at 1:14:17 PM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#312031: May 14th 2022 at 10:33:58 AM

[up][up] I vote for the second caption. Please add to the Drafts, and I'll take care of the Sandbox.

Incidentally, where's that image from?

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#312032: May 14th 2022 at 10:48:40 AM

[up][up]Yeah, those don't need to be there.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on May 14th 2022 at 10:49:02 AM

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#312033: May 14th 2022 at 11:37:27 AM

So guys what is the consensus on The Writer?

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#312034: May 14th 2022 at 11:45:34 AM

I don't know. If we can't find it, I'm thinking cut myself.

I've done Black Clover. All we need is a header and a quote.

EDIT: BTW guys, for the Green Arrow, Superman, and Batman Sandboxes I changed the namespace to Comic Book/ and added the following (this one's for Green Arrow):

This is for the comics only. Other examples for the franchise can be found below:


I know it's awkward, but it's the least awkward way I could think of. I think Marvel's okay since the Comic Book/ namespace is already there for the Earth-616 stuff.

Edited by ACW on May 14th 2022 at 3:13:37 PM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#312035: May 14th 2022 at 1:11:43 PM

Have a quick candidate on me. Last year some black directors got together to produce a very thorough look on the horror genre called Horror Noire. A few years after that, those directors cobbled together an anthology horror film of the same name—Horror Noire.

I'm gonna be talking about the very last film in the collection, "Sundown."

What has Mayor Constatine Erebus done?

Played by Peter Stormare (WHERE IS PANCAKES HOUSE) Erebus is the fiddle-playing mayor of a very literal "sundown town" that somehow survived the 1900s. For those unfamiliar with the term, a sundown town is an area where black people aren't permitted in public after dark lest they be subject to racist violence. Well, that's the deal that goes on here, except Erebus and his cronies aren't simple racists. They're vampires with a preference for "dark meat."

Erebus lures a political campaign group campaigning for a black politician into his town, where he promptly invites them in for "dinner." His fellow vampires can't wait to literally start digging into his victims; when one of the vamps literally springs up and kills one of the campaigners on the spot, Erebus merely chides her for her lack of manners before ordering the other campaigners slaughtered, telling them to spare only the two black protagonists so he can have the satisfaction of killing them himself.

This is far from the first slaughter in Erebus' sundown town. The only other black person in the city (and the only ally of the heroes) turns out to be another vampire, a victim from one of Erebus' previous massacres who turned into a vampire too quickly for them to finish eating him. Unable to kill him, Erebus turned the dude into his literal slave. When the slave fights back, Erebus promptly kills him for his "treachery," only to be slain very quickly thereafter when the heroine puts his fiddlestick through his heart.

Any mitigating factors?

N'uh. "Vampire with a large body count" is a pretty bad niche already, but you combine that with the very unsubtle racist cruelty, I think that gives him an edge to pass generic villainy. Before anyone asks nobody in the other films counts and none of them are interconnected. Erebus is the nastiest we get here.

Conclusion?

Basic vampire keeper.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#312037: May 14th 2022 at 1:20:47 PM

Yes to Mayor Constatine Erebus

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#312038: May 14th 2022 at 1:26:27 PM

"We stop at pancakes house." [tup] Erebus

It's Spooky Month!
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#312040: May 14th 2022 at 1:47:31 PM

[tup] Erebus.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
YobabyColin Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Arawn999 Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#312045: May 14th 2022 at 3:28:38 PM

What is the Work

Thor: God of Thunder is a Marvel superhero comic by Jason Aaron, starring the titular God of Thunder.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

Dario Agger is the CEO of Roxxon, and seeks to pollute and despoil as much of the Earth — and later the Ten Realms — as he can for no other reason than because he can... and for profit. He developed an exceptionally petty grudge against Thor for interfering with his schemes, and has gone to extreme lengths to get even with the God of Thunder. His crimes include using dark magic to keep the severed heads of the pirates who murdered his family alive so he could torture them for eternity; feeding his legal team to feral bears when they failed to come up with any ideas on how to deal with Thor; turning the city of Broxton into a polluted wasteland with the goal of provoking a diplomatic incident between Asgard and the United States; agreeing to let Ulik the Troll-King and his army eat the inhabitants of Broxton (and his new legal team); inventing "gracking" — fracking using gamma radiation; joining Malekith's Dark Council when promised the opportunity to plunder and desecrate the Ten Realms; setting up a safeguard to crash Roxxon's floating island headquarters into New York if anything happened to him; tricking Philips Waggoner into eating Wendigo flesh and becoming an "Ur-Wendigo"; shutting down Earth's communications networks and deploying his company's private army in service to the Dark Council's invasion of Earth — while conquering, strip-mining, and polluting Antarctica; using his wealth to bribe legal authorities to get away with his crimes on multiple occasions; and hiring Xemnu to brainwash the people of Earth into believing Roxxon was a good company while letting him feed on Roxxon's staff. And that's skimming over the various acts of murder and wanton destruction of public and private property he's committed as the Minotaur.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

His family was murdered by pirates when he was nine. He fled to a cave to hide and prayed for help, and was divinely imbued with the essence of Asterius, the original Minotaur, thus giving him the ability to turn into a Minotaur at will.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Dario Agger is the living embodiment of Capitalism Is Bad. If there is a way to make money, no matter how illegal it is, Dario will do it fully confident that his wealth makes him immune from the consequences of his actions. And if he can make even just one person's life more miserable in the process he's all the happier doing it — especially if that person is S.H.I.E.L.D. environmental agent Rosalind Solomon and/or Thor Odinson.

Edited by Arawn999 on May 14th 2022 at 3:36:27 AM

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#312046: May 14th 2022 at 3:45:14 PM

[up]Unless I'm missing something, him keeping the pirates alive to torture them for killing his family is blatantly disqualifying.

Why so serious?
Arawn999 Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#312047: May 14th 2022 at 4:00:21 PM

It is? I don't think it's meant to make Dario appear sympathetic, but more to show how petty and vengeful he is. Just killing the pirates to avenge his family would have been sympathetic, but keeping them alive to torture them for all eternity seems to be meant as coming across as excessive, and it doesn't excuse any of the other crimes he committed as the CEO of Roxxon and the Minotaur.

And if having any trace of a sympathetic backstory is enough to disqualify characters, Cletus Kasady was revelated to have murdered his grandmother because she was abusive towards him, and burned down St. Estes' in retribution for being bullied and abused by the other children and staff;note  and Malekith was sold into indentured servitude as a child by his mother, and was raised in an war-zone and beaten by his "employer",note  but both of them are still on the Complete Monster list due to their laundry list of heinous crimes.

Edited by Arawn999 on May 14th 2022 at 4:01:16 AM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#312048: May 14th 2022 at 4:01:05 PM

Doesn't change he is still doing it to avenge his family.

Arawn999 Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#312049: May 14th 2022 at 4:04:32 PM

[up] And what about all the other crimes Dario committed? Those had nothing to do with avenging his family and everything with being as big of an asshole as possible purely for the sake of being as big of an asshole as possible.

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#312050: May 14th 2022 at 4:09:02 PM

[tdown] to Dario you know I was gonna check hi until learning his backstory. Also unfortunately none of what Dario did sounds like an outright subversion his care for his family at all. If he torture the pirates for killing them that's pretty much shows how much they mean to him.


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