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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#311901: May 11th 2022 at 9:44:05 PM

EE, is the name the only change?

Overlord, where should Claude go on the page?

EmeraldEmperor Lies and Violence! Since: Oct, 2020
Lies and Violence!
#311902: May 11th 2022 at 9:45:26 PM

Yep, that’s it.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#311903: May 11th 2022 at 11:23:36 PM

Guys we have a potential problem the link that hosted Obscurity has been privated and despite looking I can't find anywhere it was repuloaded. Can anyone find one because if nobody can that will need to be cut.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#311904: May 11th 2022 at 11:32:04 PM

If they privated it (not going to theorize why), wouldn't be opposed to removing it.

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#311905: May 11th 2022 at 11:32:28 PM

[up] What is Obscurity?

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#311906: May 11th 2022 at 11:35:21 PM

I don't really know its just some random youtube video that has an approved CM.

AutumnLeaves Since: Mar, 2014
#311907: May 12th 2022 at 3:34:35 AM

Okay, I'm going to have another try at suggesting a character in this thread (I hope one day I'll get it right :)).

So, here goes: Tragimor from Princess Wennie, the fifth book in Ruler of the Magical Keys series.

What Is the Work?

Princess Wennie is a 1992 children's fantasy novel by Sofia Prokofieva. Kindhearted Blue-Collar Warlock Alyosha learns that Wennie, a little girl from a parallel fairytale universe, is in danger from dark wizard Tragimor, and sets off to help her; meanwhile, Wennie has indeed undergone Corrupt the Cutie thanks to Tragimor and now struggles with the consequences.

Who Is Tragimor and What Has He Done?

Tragimor is a wizard who has discovered that holding others' souls captive gives him unimaginable power. His modus operandi is the following: he convinces one to sign away one's soul with promises of wealth and power, and later he persuades one to perform some truly heinous act to completely seal the deal. The soul is chained up in the Kingdom of Dreams, and its former owner is alive but a hateful and miserable shade of their past self.

Tragimor's victims that we meet include:

- the Little Mouse (heinous act: revealing the location of his family's home, resulting in the palace cat nearly eating them)

- Aurint, goldsmith and jeweler (required heinous act: convincing his fiancee Smirinka to give her soul away as well; Aurint ultimately can't bring himself to do it)

- Wennie, a little orphan girl. To manipulate her into trading her soul, Tragimor creates an illusion of a little princess, and Wennie's friend and Puppy Love Wen thinks the princess is way prettier than her; Tragimor appears right when Wennie is sad and disheartened after the ensuing quarrel. The heinous act committed by Wennie is sentencing Wen to death.

When Tragimor discovers that Blue-Collar Warlock Alyosha has come to fight him, he sends various servants of his after him, eventually sending two demonic armies: the Servants of Fire and the Knights of Darkness (while he's giving them orders, he casually allows them to kill the Little Mouse as well if they like; the Mouse barely escapes).

When Alyosha manages to defeat them, Tragimor comes to face him personally, first trying to kill him and his cat, too, with the Sword of Death and then trying to chain them up forever next to the captive souls with the help of his magical Snake's Eye ring.

He fails because, unbeknownst to him, Wennie (whose crossing of Moral Event Horizon created the Sword of Death) and Aurint (who made the magical ring) have repented, rendering the weapons useless. Alyosha is able to chain Tragimor up instead because he has a previous, working copy of the Snake's Eye ring on him.

Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

None. His one kinda-sorta friend who (as far as we know) hasn't traded away his soul is a decrepit king from whom Tragimor makes an elixir of life; however, since the king is barely functioning, suffers from heavy dementia, and has his body parts literally fall off when he exerts himself in any way, the quality of the elixir is obviously doubtful.

Does he meet the Heinousness Standard?

He does indeed. He shows zero empathy and compassion for even his most devoted servants, he Would Hurt a Child (eagerly) because children has the purest souls, he has no qualms about pushing Smirinka into a Forced Marriage (she loves Aurint but refuses to marry him after he trades away his soul), and the only reason his schemes fail is that he didn't expect his victims to feel remorse.

YobabyColin Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
#311908: May 12th 2022 at 4:29:21 AM

[tup] for Hunter, Tragimor, and Tozowa.

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#311909: May 12th 2022 at 4:45:58 AM

Yes to Tragimor.

Put Claude above Enab in the comic book section.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#311910: May 12th 2022 at 5:02:34 AM

So basically And I Must Scream, in a children's book? Yeah, sure, I'll give a yes.

And BTW Overlord, I didn't ask about Taylor Douglas, since I have the timeline of the Marvel Novels. He goes between Belasco and Nadir. Politically Incorrect Villain for his name?

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#311911: May 12th 2022 at 5:30:56 AM

Break over for me, yep to Tragimor and Tozawa. Happy vacation Lighty!

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#311912: May 12th 2022 at 5:31:27 AM

[tup] to Tragimor

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#311913: May 12th 2022 at 6:21:05 AM

[tup]Tragimor

I guess cut Obscurity if the link is dead.

Edited by nwotyzal on May 12th 2022 at 6:21:13 AM

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#311914: May 12th 2022 at 6:48:52 AM

For Tragimor, can you expand in his relationship with the King?

Watch me destroying my country
AutumnLeaves Since: Mar, 2014
#311915: May 12th 2022 at 7:10:46 AM

Oh, it's not the King, it's just some random king who arrives out of nowhere and is present for the grand total of several pages. There is even a chance that he's just another illusion conjured by Tragimor, because the sole purpose of his visit is for corrupted!Wennie to get acquainted with his Royal Brat descendant. In order:

1) the king and his great-great-great-...-grandson arrive, the king is senile, sleepy, and keeps losing his body parts, but says he's grateful for Tragimor's elixir of life

2) Tragimor and the king go away for the king to get another helping of the potions that sustain him

3) Wennie is disappointed with the Royal Brat prince, remembers Wen fondly, parts of Tragimor's castle crash, and the king and prince hurriedly leave

That's basically all of it :)

Edited by AutumnLeaves on May 12th 2022 at 5:11:13 PM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#311916: May 12th 2022 at 9:09:34 AM

Happy yes to Tragimor. Trying to steal the soul of a poor litte orphan girl is nasty enough for me.

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
PS83147 Since: Sep, 2019
#311918: May 12th 2022 at 9:23:48 AM

Good day!

I'm new to this thread so I ask you for some help.

I am working on article about Russian TV series called Trace, so I would ask your opinion about criminal from one of the earliest episodes. Her name is Maria Ulyanova, and the name of the episode is "Water". So let me start.

What is the work?

Trace (Russian: След) is a Forensic Drama with Cop Show elements which focuses on special forensic department of Russian Ministry of Internal Affairs - Federal Expert Service (FES). FES can investigate the most difficult cases from all over the Russia (but mostly from Moscow and heavily fictionalized Moscow oblast), ranging from organised crime to serial killers. FES in headed by colonel Galina Nikolaevna Rogozina who is strict but loyal and devoted policewoman who always gets her men with the help of the detectives and forensic specialists.

Who is Maria and What Has She Done?

Maria is a nurse at the hospital in small town in Moscow Oblast. FES squad is sent to this town to investigate mysterious deaths of townpeople who suffered from anaphilactic shock. Near the end of the episode, number of fatalities exceeds 40. The cause of poisonings was antibiotic in tap water. One of the basic evidences was information about her son, Dmitry, who dies from anaphylaxis caused by antibiotic which is analogic to one found in victims' blood. The big problem is that one of the victims is Dmitry Somov, doctor, whose negligence led to Dmitry's death (see more in Mitigating Factors). Maria even tried to hire the inmate as contract killer (the plan had failed). And after being caught by FES, Maria shows no remorse for her victims. She is so preoccupied with revenge, other's lives... Just. Don't. Matter.

Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

There's one of the most intersting part of the story. Maria's son died due to negligence of Dmitry Somov, anasthesiologist who was drunk during medium-difficulty surgery. What makes situation worse? Somov was Ulyanova's former lover and Dmitry's father. And al he got for his negligence was two-year inprisonment. It could be an excuse (although YMMV), if it hadn't ended as fullblown terrorist attack with many innocent lives claimed.

Does she meet the Heinousness Standard?

Maria Ulyanova meets the standard, as for me. But I need the opinion of more experienced tropers.

Edited by PS83147 on May 12th 2022 at 8:20:32 PM

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#311919: May 12th 2022 at 9:55:35 AM

[up]Welcome to the thread

Unfortunately gonna have say no to Maria, even with her high body count, her wanting revenge on the people who killed his son is too mitigating to make her qualify.

Edited by nwotyzal on May 12th 2022 at 9:56:25 AM

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#311920: May 12th 2022 at 10:02:59 AM

Wait, with Tragimor, how is the soul-stealing presented In-Universe? Like, the victims aren't killed, they're "turned into a hateful and miserable shade of their former self"? Is it presented as an And I Must Scream fate, or is it more ala Snow Queen or Care Bears where the person is turned into a jerk before being magically restored?

Edited by Clown-Face on May 12th 2022 at 10:03:10 AM

Why so serious?
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#311921: May 12th 2022 at 10:19:40 AM

No to Ulyanova, unfortunately.

Not bad for a first time evaluation, however.

Edited by SkyCat32 on May 12th 2022 at 1:26:43 PM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#311922: May 12th 2022 at 10:22:08 AM

Likewise, I'm okay with Tragimov, but Maria is a no.

IT never matters how horrible, disproportionate, unfair someone's retribution is if they genuine;y loved a family member. There is one example I plan to revisit with relaxed rules from a game when I'm back who openly admits he didn't care about his own dead relatively. However, great effort and welcome!

PS83147 Since: Sep, 2019
#311923: May 12th 2022 at 10:24:53 AM

OK. Where can I thank you for help?

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#311924: May 12th 2022 at 10:40:05 AM

What you've already said is perfect. You've been polite and very receptive to feedback smile

Likewise yes to Tragimor, no to Maria but great EP and welcome as has been said!

YobabyColin Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
#311925: May 12th 2022 at 10:50:40 AM

[up][up] Welcome to the thread! No to Maria, but great first EP.


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