During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Ix
As a heads up, service for Tales of Luminaria as a game is ending according to this
.
Alrighty, apologies for the double post, but I originally did this wrong - this is one that I'm genuinely unsure of, but he's at least worth a shot. We're heading back to Pre-Crisis Green Arrow stuff, this time a two-shot from Adventure Comics #123: "The Man Behind The Mask" and #126, "The Master Arrow". It'll be short and sweet.
Who is the Mask? What does he do?
The Mask is the name of a hired assassin who specializes in making his kills look like suicides or accidents. In the span of only three days, the Mask has killed sixteen people through methods like throwing them off buildings, electrocution, and hitting them with cars, but eventually GA and Speedy get on the case. To do this, GA goes undercover and arranges for the Mask to kill Oliver Queen, having him do so at a museum that night. The Mask's goons do so by having a statue fall on him and stab him to the table, but it's just a dummy - GA and Speedy then reveal themselves. After a fight where the Mask also shoots them with arrows, he flees the battle, but gets chased by people on the subway for trying to use a counterfeit coin and electrocutes himself to death on the railway.
Then, he somehow reappears in a flashback in #126, detailing another encounter GA and Speedy had with the Mask that not only doesn't fit into the timeline, but doesn't offer anything new - just a few generic kill the heroes plans, albeit one of them is by blowing them up with a safe trap. He gets captured at the end by the police.
Got nothing for that one, tbh.
Any mitigating factors? Freudian Excuse?
None to speak of, so let's move on.
Is he heinous enough?
I mean, he doesn't quite jump out at ya, but he's got 16 kills through rougher than usual methods (lots of throwing off of buildings, an electrocution, trying to stab someone with a statue, car accidents, etc.), he's a Pre-Crisis two-shot (though he doesn't actually do anything of note in the second appearance), GA's standard is a bit more street level than some others, and just to top it off, In-Universe, he racks up this kill count within three days, so he's working fast for his time in-universe and out. Basically, he reminds me of Charlie Baker, who also gets on the list by virtue of being a Spree Killer - the Mask is a similar case to me.
Final verdict?
Eh, not married to this one, but he's at least worth a shot - what about you?
Mask
Alright this one's overdue, so allow me to talk about New York Undercover for a moment.
What Is the Work?
Season 1βs βAfter Shakespeareβ has JC and Torres investigate a gang leader assassination thatβs potentially linked to a shady real estate agent. Guess who our contender is?
Who Is He?
Clark Redmond is the CEO of Mohawk Enterprises who will do anything to make money off of his apartments.
What has he done?
To scare his tenants out of his apartments in order to sell more rooms, Redmond has arms dealer Eddie Dodge sell weapons to two gangs in order to start a gang war, having some gangsters killed in order to initiate the attacks. To Redmond, the war will strike fear into the tenants, forcing them to move out of their apartments and open up more rooms for rent. This results in the death of one of the gang's leaders.
With Redmond uncaring that heβs arming young people and manipulating them into killing each other, Redmond gets his assistant David Kinsoling to bribe the young Quentin into killing the rival leader Armando. But Torres and JC arrive just in time to prevent the assassination, while arresting Redmond and Kinsoling afterwards.
Redeeming Qualities?
Zero.
Heinousness?
My only concern with Clark is that he has to compete with people like Duane, Robert, and Royce. But I think heβs able to stand out from the fact that most of the people he wants dead are teenagers, or at least people in their early 20s, manipulating them into killing each other for the sake of scaring people and raking in money, while also uncaring about the amount of collateral or random violence that his war will bring about.
Conclusion
Barely passes imo.
It's Spooky Month!Edging towards approval for Clark Redmond, although I confess to initially being unsure of him.
Upon reflection, I don't see how manipulating teenagers into killing each other for a quick buck is much less heinous than killing teenagers to make a quick buck on their body parts.
Insert Tuco Salamanca joke here.
Edited by SkyCat32 on May 10th 2022 at 10:24:07 AM
The Mask
Sure to Redmond, personally I do think manipulating others to kill each other for you to profit is distinct enough especially when you prey upon vulnerable young teens or adults. I mean it's one thing if you alone are doing the killing, but when you get others to do it for you unwittingly, that feels like it occupies a certain niche, especially when your not just damning yourself, your damning others as well and ruining their lives.
Edited by TheImmortalAngelNewton on May 10th 2022 at 10:18:34 PM
Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - GiselleBy the way, Redmond goes above Omega on Monster.Law And Order.
Picard, Ragyo, High Priest, Abyss, Douglas, Yodon, Sutur, Aizen, Mask, Clark.
Donatello, Ix.
I'm wondering if this can be added to the "Definitely not a CM" section on Administrivia - Complete Monster
- Bleach: Mayuri Kurotsuchi (Cared for his daughter/clone)
Edit: Didn't realize he was already discussed previously.
Edited by spyland2 on May 10th 2022 at 12:18:42 PM
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For example, if say Porky Minch is brought up once or twice more, he might go on that list due to the amount of times heβs been proposed and shot down

What changed?