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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#310777: Apr 27th 2022 at 7:10:20 PM

@Ravok: my dad and I watched the first two episodes of Outer Range. We stopped watching after the 2nd episode when it got confusing and weird, so glad to hear I’m not the only one ( don’t ask me to reserve because my answer will be no [lol])

Edited by G-Editor on Apr 27th 2022 at 4:11:53 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
spyland2 Since: Jun, 2021
#310778: Apr 27th 2022 at 7:32:23 PM

I'm curious if this can be added to the Administrivia subpage for Complete Monster under "Definitely not a CM"

  • Fear the Walking Dead: Theodore "Teddy" Maddox (Although he killed his mother, he later regretted the act.)

PurpleEyedGuma Since: Apr, 2020
#310779: Apr 27th 2022 at 7:37:53 PM

A character only gets put up on the NA list if different people keep bringing up the same points about it. I don’t think Maddox has been brought up recently.

Yes to Bizon.

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#310780: Apr 27th 2022 at 7:38:09 PM

[up][up] I don't think that's necessary

Edited by Powermaster201 on Apr 27th 2022 at 10:38:35 AM

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#310781: Apr 27th 2022 at 7:44:49 PM

[tup]L & Bizon

Abstain on Ogre

Maddox is unnecessary because we all kinda agreed he should be cut, & there was no massive pushback.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#310782: Apr 27th 2022 at 7:49:34 PM

Likewise, I'm kinda hesitant on Ogre. The lore does mention he might just be an alien bioweapon, which's...weird enough, but the agency queries this raises or what this means are unclear.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#310783: Apr 27th 2022 at 7:59:36 PM

If anything this might be a good testing ground for how much ambiguous agency we are willing to allow as in this case agency seems super ambiguous but he is never technically definitively shown to not have any.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#310784: Apr 27th 2022 at 8:07:56 PM

Spy, can you please stop recommending characters for the NA list who don’t actually need to be there? Between Lucifer and now Maddox, it’s twice you’ve suggested a character for whom there has been no argument, and it’s a pattern I’d rather nip in the bud

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#310785: Apr 27th 2022 at 8:08:20 PM

[up][up]Yeah this kinda does sound like a weird situation like we had with Mr. Dark that started the loosened agency rule with Made of Evil folks except Ogre is an alien bioweapon and not a personification of evil stuff.

Edited by Powermaster201 on Apr 27th 2022 at 11:08:44 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#310786: Apr 27th 2022 at 8:33:46 PM

Does Ogre get dialogue? I'm honestly thinking no unless there's a lot more to "Btw according to the character profile he's got a personality", which seems very much like an afterthought on the creators' part.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#310787: Apr 27th 2022 at 8:39:35 PM

Abstaining on Ogre.

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#310788: Apr 27th 2022 at 8:40:43 PM

Oh, good thing I came in on a whim:

No to Ogre. It has no dialogue in Tekken - to be specific, it speaks in an untranslated alien language. Only in the crossover with Street Fighter does it get translations. Tekken Tag Tournament 2, while a Dream Match Game, suggests it's just one of very many from another world. No personality and a hazy backstory. It's just an intimidating bad guy for you to fight.

You could maybe try Street Fighter X Tekken, but even then I'm sceptical on it.

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#310789: Apr 27th 2022 at 8:45:37 PM

That cements it for me. [tdown] to Ogre

It's Spooky Month!
emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#310790: Apr 27th 2022 at 8:47:42 PM

Here is the writeup for Miroslaw Bison. I have to say no to Ogre. He doesn't speak from my experience with Tekken games.

  • W11- Wydzial Sledzczy
    • "Bestialstwo" ("Inhumanity"): Mirosław Bizoń is a psychpath who enjoys torturing and killing people including his own family. When Bizoń was only 14, he murdered his own parents with stabbing his mother 50 times, and slitting his father's throat. He also constantly rapes and bullies his younger sister until she is just a shell of a human being. When his grandmother calls him "Devil who should burn in hell", Bizoń has her tied up and starved to death. Kidnapping 20 year old Maciek together with his girlfriend and her younger brother who is only a kid, Bizoń plans on brutally killing them all and succeeding with Maciek by having him burned alive. Later, he has Maciek's girlfriend raped and he plans on brutally killing her as well before being captured by police. A total psychopath who just enjoyed torturing everyone around him, Mirosław Bizoń was hated by everyone including his grandmother.

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
mariogalaxy Since: Feb, 2022
#310791: Apr 27th 2022 at 8:50:59 PM

[tup] to bizon and the both L’s

Keep harlequin

[tdown] ogre

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#310796: Apr 27th 2022 at 10:35:24 PM

Switching to a no on Ogre

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Mediawatcher Since: Dec, 2015
#310798: Apr 27th 2022 at 11:45:07 PM

Sorry to procrastinate on this for so long but as far as I know I couldn’t find anyone in the king of spies comic to qualify, most of the crimes mentioned are offscreen, there was a priest who was involved in covering up crimes of his church but we never get any detail as to what those crimes were just the victims involved.

Edited by Mediawatcher on Apr 27th 2022 at 11:45:19 AM

MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#310800: Apr 28th 2022 at 12:27:47 AM

Thought something was off with Ogre. [tdown] for him then.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.

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