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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#310701: Apr 26th 2022 at 8:06:30 PM

I tried Guy years back, he got downvoted.

Any more votes on my Eli Morrow quote?

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
spyland2 Since: Jun, 2021
#310703: Apr 26th 2022 at 8:37:26 PM

Wondering if this will be a good entry for "Definitely a Complete Monster" on the Administrivia subpage

  • Supernatural: Lucifer (Though he seemed to care for his son at first, he was willing to kill him later on.)

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#310704: Apr 26th 2022 at 8:40:18 PM

As far as I can remember, he's only been contested once and it was shot down pretty easily, so I don't think we have to worry about that

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
ASghhrv6ub Best Smile from Second star to the right. Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Best Smile
#310706: Apr 26th 2022 at 9:08:15 PM

[tup]Bullseye, Strucker, Dutch, Dante, Carver, Randall, Angel, Hijack, Ricky and David, L, Scientist, Mathias, Lucifero, Harlan, Chaos, Ronald, DCAU rewrites.

[tdown]Jack, Prince John.

I am the one, I am the one, the godlike terror train, superior artificial brain, feel free to call me Blaine
MinisterOfSinister From 'Ell's 'eart Oi stab at ye! from In the Hall of the Mountain King Since: Jan, 2014 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
From 'Ell's 'eart Oi stab at ye!
#310707: Apr 26th 2022 at 9:30:14 PM

[tup] Rewrites.

SailorVenus372 Since: Nov, 2019 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#310708: Apr 26th 2022 at 9:50:55 PM

I have a proposal for a quote. Mr. Yin from Psych.

Yin: “Hello, Shawn. I have good news and bad news. The good news is that our femme fatale is still very much alive. The bad news, for you anyway, is that I've now met the girl next door. I understand your predicament. They're both so you. But we can't have our cake and eat it, too. So I'm doing you a favor here by forcing you to choose.
Shawn: “Choose?
Yin: “Yes, Shawn. Who do you care about more? Because you can't save them both.”
Mr. Yin announcing a Sadistic Choice to Shawn Spencer and the Police using a Phone, Psych

Edited by SailorVenus372 on Apr 26th 2022 at 9:58:25 AM

Get Snuck-Up On.”
TBmacho22 Since: Jul, 2021 Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
#310709: Apr 26th 2022 at 10:53:00 PM

Question, is it a redemptive quality if a villain loves their country or is that too minor? Like maybe not the citizens itself but like the country as a whole, is that a redemptive quality?

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#310710: Apr 26th 2022 at 11:07:39 PM

CM's can't care about anyone but themselves so if it's genuine then it is disqualifying.

Unsure on the quote.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Apr 26th 2022 at 11:08:08 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#310711: Apr 26th 2022 at 11:32:54 PM

Loving their country as a whole...that's somewhat of a case-by-case, depending on how they "love" it.

Lighty: Yeah, that's fine for the queen. If it's this week I'll just get 'em together.

username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#310712: Apr 26th 2022 at 11:37:26 PM

A CM can care about the state of a country or the world as a whole if they don't necessarily care about the people that live there. Zamasu for example, seemed to care about the universe as a whole he just despised the mortals who caused conflict that damaged it and was willing to kill everyone including his fellow gods so he can be the only one to enjoy the universe's beauty.

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#310715: Apr 27th 2022 at 3:53:24 AM

I counted before adding him to the drafts : 5[tup], no [tdown].

Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Apr 27th 2022 at 12:53:44 PM

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
mariogalaxy Since: Feb, 2022
#310716: Apr 27th 2022 at 4:18:57 AM

[tup] to the marvel noir and black clover candidates

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#310717: Apr 27th 2022 at 4:49:30 AM

Yes to the quote, I like the rewrites and honestly gonna show L some love with an upvote too. I don't think the Lucifer NA is necessary.

WatTambor Since: Oct, 2020
#310718: Apr 27th 2022 at 5:05:01 AM

The current tally for Lo Bu is the following:

Yes(20): 43, jackie, Sky, nwo, Library, STARCRUSHER, Lighty, Ravok, G, MGD, Cloister, A Sghhrv6ub, papyru, Snoke, Tyk, Demon, Tell All, Wet, mario, Dr Unknown

No(5): me, Kazuya, Silverblade, Lore, Xie

Abstain(5): ACW, Ordeaux, Yobaby, Critica, Powermaster

He has enough upvotes already even if I don't agree with his inclusion. Please, let me know if I have missed anyone's vote even though it wouldn't change anything.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#310719: Apr 27th 2022 at 5:15:54 AM

Holy hell, I always underestimate the yes votes.

Where should he go on the page?

TBmacho22 Since: Jul, 2021 Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
#310720: Apr 27th 2022 at 5:51:14 AM

I have a Fire Emblem villain proposal from the Fire Emblem Gaiden remake

Who is he? What has he done?

Slayde is a Zofian general that serves under Chancellor Desaix. Once a minor Zofian solider of noble descent, he was summoned by Chancellor Desaix and tasked with burning down the Villa that had the Royal Children of Lima IV to further his descent. Slayde was hesitant at first but once offered power and wealth, he changes his attitude in an instant out of fear for his own safety.

After successfully burning the Villa, Slayde appears near Ram Village, Slayde threatens the children to bring him and his men food and housing or he'll destroy the village. Recognizing one of the children to being the escaped princess Antheise, Slayde attempts to abduct her and kill the rest of the children that stand against him, only to run away when beaten by Mycen. Reappearing in Zofia's Castle years later to defend it, Slayde sets up a body double so Desaix can run away should the Deliverence gain the upper hand in battle.

After the battle was lost, Slayde is confronted by Duma Faithful servants and is taken to Rigel where he sells out information about Zofia to Rigel for personal power. In the final battle, Slayde attacks the Deliverance one final time before is ultimately killed off.

Heninous Standard?

He seems to be just as bad if not worse than Desaix because not only was he complacent in Desaix's plans including killing Lima's children, but Slayde himself is nasty in his own way by forcing children to serve him and threatening to kill them and the village should they not do so. He also shows absolutely no loyalty to his own country when he sells it out to Rigel for power.

Mitigating Factors?

He had one factor where he was hesitant when Desaix ordered him to burn the Villa. However, this factor is thrown out the window when he 1)Instantly changed his mind out of either fear for his life or Desaix offering him Power and 2) He sells out information to the Rigelian Empire, showing he doesn't even care about his own country and 3) Threatened to kill children and burn down a village if he wasn't offered things and he did this without orders from Desaix.

Verdict?

This guy is just as bad as Desaix. [tup] for me.

Edited by TBmacho22 on Apr 27th 2022 at 5:51:35 AM

Ansongc2000 Pensive Wright from Serenity Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Hit me with your best shot
Pensive Wright
#310721: Apr 27th 2022 at 6:13:14 AM

[tup] to Slayde.

Also, I have two current entries I feel have mitigating qualities. I'll start with the simpler of the two for now.

I watched Justice League: Gods and Monsters... and then went on You Tube to watch the Harley Quinn short, because those scenes aren't in the feature film. And I feel like this version of Harley Quinn, while certainly bad enough, appears legitimately insane.

Her M.O. is abducting people, killing them, and turning them into ever-smiling works of taxidermy. Her few lines in the short offer insight into her motivations; She says Batman is gloomy all the time, but everyone doesn't have to be. Now, this could be sarcasm, or she could just find smiling corpses beautiful... but when she accidently slices one of the statue's head's off, she shouts "Grandma!", then angrily attacks Batman, saying that the elderly woman's corpse was going to make her cookies. Now, her evident anger could just be from how she won't get cookies now, but the fact she even thought that was a possibility all but explicitly states she doesn't understand that her victims are dead, and that she thinks her work makes them happy forever. When Batman defeats her, she concedes defeat and asks him to take her to jail, showing she knows what she does is illegal, but not that she understands it's immoral, so while this version of Harley Quinn may be a Composite Character with Victor Zsasz, her motivations and sanity give her the moral agency of Humpty Dumpty.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#310723: Apr 27th 2022 at 6:21:22 AM

Unsure on Slayde. Threatening children and even a village seems small potatoes compared to Desaix.

YobabyColin Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
#310724: Apr 27th 2022 at 6:59:31 AM

Sure to the rewrites. Abstain on Slyade. No to John and Kleghorn. As for Harley, waiting for other people's input before deciding whether we should cut her.

Edited by YobabyColin on Apr 27th 2022 at 10:21:27 AM

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#310725: Apr 27th 2022 at 8:02:41 AM

I'm going to say no to Slayde. I'm seeing treachery and threats against children, many of which aren't carried out or are done at the behest of the current CM, which defangs his heinousness to me

I'm fine keeping Harley Quinn, though.

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA

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