During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
We are doing it mostly to split up the various Web Media into different sections which are already how it's done on most of the site.
Another candidate from a short indie horror game
What is the Work?
Undercurrent
is a short indie horror game by dave-ja, which can be walked through in 20 minutes. The game follows a nameless protagonist, as his boat was crushed and he ended up stranded on an island. As he goes to a single building on the island to get some rest and warm up, he discovers an undersea lab, where some nasty experiments took place.
Full walkthrough of the game can be watched here:
My candidate is the man behind these experiments - Mr. Moray.
Who is Mr. Moray?
Head of development in Undercurrent Incorporate, Moray led the research and development of unknown virus, which was possibly made to help humans to regenerate faster. Known for his bad temper and eager willingness to experiment on scientists and workers (which led to their deaths, as subjects lose their minds after 20 days and then die), that worked in his lab, Moray made some people, who made his angry, dissapear. Eventually testing the virus on himself, Moray turned himself into a zombie with super strenght, after which he attacked his coworkers and slaughtered them all (there are a lot of filled bodybags and blood in the lab).
Roaming the lab and trying to find the protagonist, Moray finally sees him and chases after him, after the protagonist finds his lab, where a lot of people are being experimented on and turned into blobs of flesh. As Moray gleefully announces his intention to experiment on the protagonist as well, protagonist escapes from him and flees from the lab to the sea on a new boat, as the lab is being destroyed.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
At first i was hesitant due to the whole "virus makes the subjects lose their minds" and Moray (as in his current status) was infected with the virus. But i decided to give it a chance after replaying the game, the flashbacks and notes show, Moray was always a cruel sociopath, who eagerly experimented on his inferiors and infected himself with the virus on his own free will, basically turning himself into a mad zombie, just to make himself more powerful (from what the game implies).
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Experimented on several people and slaughtered dozens, i think he passes.
Final Verdict?
What do you think?
Edited by VeryVileVillian on Apr 21st 2022 at 10:14:35 PM
Yes to Moray.
I could go either way on the reformat, but regardless I stand by my position that I don't think we should lump nosleep together
.
![]()
I have already ungrouped the No sleep stuff on Web Serial Novels so that has already been done.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Apr 21st 2022 at 12:18:07 PM
Yes to Moray
I mean, most of the work on the reformat was done before people started giving their opinions, and the opinions that were given before this post
were Libraryseraph and ACW saying that they're not opposed to it (which I really don't think is enough to warrant all that has been done).
Edited by papyru30 on Apr 21st 2022 at 1:24:40 PM
Here’s the re-EP for Porky. I could go either way here.
Mother is a trilogy of games created by Nintendo revolving around life fighting back against an intergalactic threat known as Giygas. However, that threat ends in the second game, and in the third game, the enemy isn’t Alien…
Who is Porky Minch? What has he done?
Porky Minch is the young portly child of Lardna and Aloysois Minch and brother to Picky Minch. He’s regarded as the neighborhood bully, but one day a meteorite lands nearby and he abandons his brother Picky out of cowardice. When Ness and he go to the top and find Picky, he explains to Ness that Porky lied about what had occurred. (He fed Ness a sob story) A buzzing occurs, and the hero of the Bad Future, Buzz Buzz appears and explains that three boys and a girl will come together to put an end to the threat of the evil Giygas. Porky makes it clear that he doesn’t want to be one of those kids, and he isn’t. Ness is the only one present who is. That being said, Porky gets punished by his parents when Ness brings the brothers home. He next appears in Happy Happy Village where he reveals that he has joined a cult, and sics cultists on Ness while he was trying to save Paula, who the cult wants to use as a literal Human Sacrifice. Defeat them and Porky flees, turning up again once the cult is stopped, explaining that he was under the same mind control the cultists were…only to reveal that this was very much not the case before leaving.
Porky next appears in Fourside. Here, he and his father were working as consultants for Geldegarde Monotoli, who Paula had been abducted by. After Monotoli is confronted by Ness and Jeff, Porky steals his helicopter both to escape and to hinder the heroes from getting to Summers. His helicopter crashed in the location Deep Darkness, and he did not appear again for some time until a phone call with Dr. Andonuts. Porky kidnaps him while the phone is on, and the heroes rescue Andonuts and a bunch of other civilians from the Starmen, some of Giygas’ forces.
He doesn’t appear again until the Cave of the Past, where it is revealed that the first Phase Distorter has been stolen by him and he had fled to the Cave of the Past and joined forces with Giygas, not because of mind control, but of his own free will if later events are any indication. Playing a part in strengthening Giygas, once the heroes confront him, Porky and his master fight him together. After taking enough damage, Porky switches off the Devil’s Machine, turning Giygas into the infamous mindless Eldritch Abomination, and Porky is all too gleeful at the idea of Ness and his friends perishing against him.
Porky: “So, isn't this terrifying? I'm terrified too. Giygas cannot think rationally anymore, and he isn't even aware of what he is doing now. His own mind was destroyed by his incredible power. What an all-mighty idiot! Yep, that's what he is! Heh heh heh heh... and you... you will be... just another meal to him!”
After watching them fight Giygas and fail to do anything to him, he mocks them over it, and dares them to call for help, claiming that it won’t do a thing to help. It does, and they defeat Giygas. Porky flees through time to escape, telling Ness that We Will Meet Again beforehand. (They don’t)
He returns in Mother 3. Here, in the far future, humanity had been wiped out by an unknown crisis, and the last of humanity had taken refuge on the Nowhere Islands with their memories wiped. Here, Porky starts his next and final plan. Kidnapping Dr Andonuts and taking him to the future, brainwashing innocents into his army known as Pigmasks and corrupting Fassad, who was already an asshole, into becoming a high-ranking officer of his forces, he had them turn the wildlife into mechanical and biological chimeras, turning usually docile wildlife into absolutely hostile creatures. This results in a forest fire and ultimately the death of Lucas’ mother and the disappearance of his brother Claus, who Porky gleefully has converted into a mindless cyborg. The next chapter has him sending his pigmasks to collect a artifact, and the third chapter has him get Fassad to corrupt the citizens of Tazmily, showing the abuse his forces inflict on innocents under their command, including kicking and beating them, electrocution, kidnapping and refusing to feed them…after saying that they would.
The time jumps forward three years, where it is revealed that Porky’s Pigmasks have successfully corrupted the citizens into what he wanted them to become. Lucas, Kumatora, Boney and Duster eventually end up on Thunder Tower, which Porky had violently destroy the homes of those who wouldn’t do what he wanted with bolts of man made lightning. After destroying the tower, they discover that the Masked Man (Actually Claus), the second in command of the Pigmasks, is pulling Mac Guffins known as the seven needles to reshape the world to his master’s liking. Claus and Lucas eventually pull 3 each, and they eventually end up at New Pork City, complete with the reveal that yes, Porky is the asshole behind all of the shit that happens in this game.
Here, he cruelly sends the heroes on a wild goose chase around the city and his Empire Porky Building, culminating in him siccing his Natural Killer Cyborg in them. After they win, they fight robotic duplicates of Porky, and after they are destroyed. Porky emerges from the ceiling in a large mechanical bed with spider legs, declaring that the end of the world is here before forcing the heroes under the building and underground.
Here, Flint, Lucas’ father, gets brutally beaten by Claus, and Porky, when confronted by the heroes, declares his intentions to destroy everything and everyone that doesn’t like him once the final needle is pulled. Lucas and friends defeat him, and he retreats into the Absolutely Safe Capsule, sticking his tongue out at them, revealing that he enjoys this And I Must Scream fate.
Do they have any mitigating factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here’s the tricky part. He never claims to have a Freudian Excuse, but the potential mitigating factor is there, and can also be disproven. In Mother 3, he has Ness’ Yo-yo in storage labeled “Friend’s Yo-yo.” He sees Ness as a Worthy Opponent and has some respect for him, which is rendered moot when he sics Giygas on him. Also, nothing suggests he lacks agency in the slightest. Also, his name means nothing considering we have someone named King Boo up among others.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Yes. Attempted decimation of all life and unlike Giygas, was aware of what he was doing. Brainwashing a young boy to the point where in the brief moment he breaks free, he kills himself to escape it.
Final Verdict?
You decide.
Edited by SailorVenus372 on Jul 8th 2025 at 5:38:53 AM
“Get Snuck-Up On.”I can't support Porky myself. The last handful of times he's been brought up we've come to the conclusion he does have some lingering affection for Ness and even if we want to discount the Word of God sources, I can't ignore he keeps his possession and labels it as belonging to a friend. He's a selfish megalomaniac but it's clear to me the game ultimately wants to show him as having some vestige of humanity in his loneliness.
I mean, no matter what happens I think most of us can agree he’s still a nasty piece of work
“Get Snuck-Up On.”
Porky. It's not just the Yo-yo; the man makes a movie of Ness's journey and plays it for free in the movie theater in his capital, long after Ness is likely dead. It's not like Dio where it comes off as twisted; in Porky's case, it comes off as a kid who misses the one person who considered him a friend.
![]()
I misinterpreted it as Porky being kind of creepy, didn’t I?
Should Porky be on the Never Again List? If he’s been brought up multiple times...
Edited by SailorVenus372 on Apr 21st 2022 at 1:42:02 AM
“Get Snuck-Up On.”I'm going to weigh in and give a
for Primacron.
We can't really blame Unicron's crimes on him, since he betrayed Primacron the first chance he got. As for Tornedron, he's definitely more culpable in his crimes as we see him controlling him.
But I can't overlook how the episode depicts him once we see him in person. Primacron loses control of Tornedron and once Grimlock meets him, he starts laughing about how pathetic he his.
Primacron: "Unfortunately... yes."
Grimlock: "Grimlock laugh at little wimp who cause big trouble!"
Grimlock basically bullies him the entire scene and makes him look like an idiot by just hitting the reverse switch to stop Tornedron's attack. The episode ends with Grimlock proudly dancing about and wrecking Primacron's lab, which the episode treats as fitting punishiment enough.
Compared to Unicron, who's introduced killing an entire planet of men, women, and children on-screen, as well as torturing Galvatron into obeying him, it's hard to ignore the different portrayals of the characters and how the series treats their actions.
Edited by chasemaddigan on Apr 21st 2022 at 4:45:54 AM
Porky is awful, yes. But regardless of trying to kill Ness, the fact that he still cherishes that Yo-yo and plays a movie of Ness's adventure to his brainwashed citizens - a movie with no malicious editing shown depicting an adventure where Ness and Porky were on opposite sides - all after Ness is long dead is too much for me to ignore.
Writeups to get them out of the way:
The Testament of Sherlock Holmes: Hans Schielman aka the Rat Killer is the brilliant chemist who works for Professor Moriarty. Spending several years in the high security wing of London's Westgate Prison for trying to poison drinking water reservoirs of London, Hans escaped with the help from both Sherlock Holmes and Professor Moriarty. Eagerly helping Moriarty to finish his formula of a dangerous poison that turns people into feral madmen, who attack anyone they see, Hans gleefully experiments and tortures several people, before he finished the formula. Injecting the poison into countless soup carts, that were being sent to Whitechapel, so that thousands of poor hungry people would be fed with poisoned soup, which would turn them into feral "animals". Planning to assist Moriarty to send them rampaging across London, which would cause a lot of death and destruction, Hans made it so that his poison would also killed the poisoned people after 48 hours, which would have left thousands more deaths in the wake.
Undercurrent
: Mr. Moray is the head of development in Undercurrent Incorporate, who led the development of an unknown virus in an undersea lab. Known for his bad tempter, Moray made several of his own co-workers into subjects for his experiments for little more than irritating him. Eventually injecting himself with the unfinished virus, Moray turned himself into superhumanly strong zombie and slaughtered all of staff in the lab, afterwards experimenting on their corpses and turning them into blobs of meat.
