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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#307426: Mar 29th 2022 at 5:16:14 AM

[tup] Hovrak.

[tup] Mueh'zala.

  • The Adventures Of Pinocchio: Lorenizni starts out out as a powerful, arrogant rival to Geppetto, Lorenzini adopts Pinocchio in return for paying off Geppetto's debt, and soon tries to burn Pinnochio, and Geppetto's other puppets as part of his show. When his business collapses, Lorenzini starts anew by opening Terra Magica, where hundreds of unruly children are spiked with an elixir that transforms them into donkeys. Lorenzini would have these donkey's sold off for slave labor, and even orders one to be skinned to make him a new pair of boots. After being transformed into a sea monster, Lorenzini returns, disguised as his "widow", Madame Flambeau, who runs a carnival that he shanghaies Pinocchio, and a transformed Geppetto into preforming in. Having transformed Pinocchio's friend Lampwick into a sea donkey, he threatens Lampwick and Geppetto's lives to coerce Pinocchio into turning himself back into a puppet. He has also turned innocent people into fish like creatures he keeps in his aquarium, who he regularly eats as a dish. Revealing himself as Lorenzini, he intends to eat Lampwick, and use Pinocchio and Geppetto as firewood for his feast.

Edited by Beast on Mar 29th 2022 at 5:17:03 AM

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Misry6 Imperfect Disgrace from the Eternal Nothingness Since: Nov, 2021 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Imperfect Disgrace
#307427: Mar 29th 2022 at 5:33:38 AM

[tup] Morando rewrite, Hovrak, and Mueh'zala.

Abstain on Rasputin.

Just an empty void…
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#307428: Mar 29th 2022 at 5:40:40 AM

I'll go with cutting Rasputin.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#307429: Mar 29th 2022 at 5:48:24 AM

I'd weigh in again on Rasputin right now, but I want to see more on how this plays out first. And yes, I'm still on keep.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Mar 29th 2022 at 5:51:46 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
YobabyColin Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
#307431: Mar 29th 2022 at 6:25:17 AM

Abstain leaning cut to Rasputin.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#307432: Mar 29th 2022 at 6:50:56 AM

Yes to Lorenzini, Hovrak & Mueh'zala, no to Twinrova. future I don't wanna tell you to stop talking but I see you're ready to start defending him some more: that's cool but you've said a lot about him and we need new info if you're going to keep arguing for him to stay.

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#307433: Mar 29th 2022 at 7:07:16 AM

I vote to cut Rasputin. But yes to Lorenzini.

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#307434: Mar 29th 2022 at 7:19:03 AM

@43 I did prep something a little deeper that dived into his relevance in the story and why he still stands out compared to Hanussen and tried to make new points too. I'll hold off though. I don't want to come off as ranting.

I'm gonna read it again and update it a little if need be. Someone want to review what I wrote beforehand and see if they agree something new's being said?

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Mar 29th 2022 at 7:30:17 AM

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
WatTambor Since: Oct, 2020
#307436: Mar 29th 2022 at 8:15:44 AM

Here is a video suggestion for Clarence Boddicker and Dick Jones from Robocop

WatTambor Since: Oct, 2020
#307437: Mar 29th 2022 at 8:19:52 AM

Also, another video suggestion for Keeper Agruss from The Clone Wars.

Edited by WatTambor on Apr 8th 2022 at 10:45:59 PM

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#307438: Mar 29th 2022 at 8:39:19 AM

@Wat Careful not to double post. If it's not too long, the Jones/Clarence video can count for one if not both of them. If I had to pick, just Clarence and then pull up the video of either Jones sicking ED-209 on RoboCop or the one of him threatening The Old Man.

WatTambor Since: Oct, 2020
#307439: Mar 29th 2022 at 8:44:57 AM

The video is only 1:46. I don't think it's too long and I would say it can count for both Clarence and Dick because while Clarence is the one who commits the murder, Dick appears on a video to taunt the man before his death and it's made clear he was the one who ordered it.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#307440: Mar 29th 2022 at 9:08:23 AM

For reference, the maximum length allowed for a video is 2:30. I will check those out later.

CaptainPinkiePie from Equestria with love Since: Mar, 2019 Relationship Status: Brony
#307441: Mar 29th 2022 at 10:11:44 AM

Cut Rasputin, Russia's greatest dance machine.

Captain Pinkie Pie! Nah, just Pinkie Pie.
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#307442: Mar 29th 2022 at 10:13:50 AM

So remember that proposal of Galeem and how a fanfic version of the character was suggested will I have read it so it's time for a proposal.

What is the Work

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate: World of Light is, as the name suggests, a fanfic of Super Smash Bros. Ultimate that adapts the World of Light story mode.

Who is Galeem and What Has He Done?

Galeem much like the game it is based on starts the story off by wiping out all life in the smash bros universe, while he has an army of master hands on her side. Galeem transforms all the fighters into spirits and uses them as her slaves. For most of the fic, he does take an overall backseat mostly just observing what is going on with the fighters that managed to survive and trying to stop them.

In Chapter 12, it's revealed that the way Galeem has gotten Master Hand on her side is that he currently has his brother crazy hand imprisoned. When Master Hand simply talks to one of the fighters Galeem threatens to banish Crazy Hand to the Dark Realm where he would be trapped forever if Master Hand does not submit to full brainwashing. Master Hand agrees but Galeem banishes Crazy Hand anyway and then brainwashes Master Hand.

Later on, the heroes come into contact with Galeem and battle her they are ultimately able to win but her defeat causes Dharkoh to be freed so Galeem retreats.

In Chapter 37 we get the most detailed chapter on Galeem. He has existed since the beginning of time and he and Dharkoh are the light and dark counterparts to each other who have fought for control over the world with Galeem coming on top and sealing Dharkoh away. However, the rise of the smashers and Tabuu's attempt to turn the world into a great maze causes Galeem to decide to wipe out the entire world and remake it from scratch.

He does this due to the fighters interfering with her as well as them being made up of heroes and villains which Galeem doesn't like due to the whole light vs darkness thing. One of her minions Ultra Necrozma tries to point out this is way too extreme but Galeem shuts him down. Galeem then goes on to enslave Mewtwo in her plan to win against the smashers and wipe out the entire universe.

And then the fic died so that is where her story ends.

Does he have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Nothing that I am seeing as explicitly redeeming. Unlike her game counterpart, this version of Galeem has a lot of dialogue and we get a lot of exploration into things like motive, manipulation and pettiness from her. There are some individual things related to her I do need to talk about though.

First of all, is agency. Galeem in Chapter 37 explains that he and Dharkoh are primordial beings that have existed since the beginning of time with them acting as the Light and Dark counterparts to each other. However, in a rather odd situation, it's the light counterpart that has a chance at qualifying. We see in the same chapter that Galeem is choosing to wipe out the entire universe on her own due to feelings that he is being interfered with, so he is willingly choosing to commit an evil act on her own which one of her own minions explicitly questions if it's too extreme. So I don't think her agency is a problem.

Galeem does kind of try to present herself as a Well-Intentioned Extremist but as I already mentioned one of her own minions Ultra Necrozma thinks that it is unnecessarily extreme. And ultimately Galeem is presented as little more than someone who wants to wipe out the entire universe and remake it from scratch out of personal hatred just for the mere idea of the fighters interfering with her and the fact the group includes both heroes and villains.

Does he meet the Heinousness Standard?

Well, he is an Omnicidal Maniac who wants to remake the universe in her image explicitly has enslaved many people and more. I think we are good there.

Final Verdict?

Leaning towards a yes, though I could see her getting rejected due to agency.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Mar 30th 2022 at 12:30:32 PM

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#307443: Mar 29th 2022 at 10:24:51 AM

Based on the EP, sounds like Galeem could be a [tup].

Again, I'm on standby. Ready to go at any moment. Gonna confer with most of those who said keep in PMs.

Misry6 Imperfect Disgrace from the Eternal Nothingness Since: Nov, 2021 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Imperfect Disgrace
#307444: Mar 29th 2022 at 10:25:53 AM

[tup] Galeem. It seems like in this case, both light and dark counterparts can choose to be good or evil, so I wouldn't mind seeing a Fanfic!Dharkon proposal either.

Just an empty void…
YobabyColin Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#307446: Mar 29th 2022 at 10:27:49 AM

Oh yeah, I should probably mention this. I was considering Dharkoh as well but the problem is that due to the premature end of this fic his motives and plans aren't given as much depth as Galeem which might present some possible heinousness problems. I am not totally sure but I am not he counts.

Hardcorebatmanfan Since: Mar, 2021 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#307447: Mar 29th 2022 at 10:30:20 AM

Cut to Rasputin. https://youtu.be/epmbsdgWRrU Could this video from 0:00 to 0:50 be a good video example?

Edited by Hardcorebatmanfan on Mar 29th 2022 at 10:42:02 AM

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#307449: Mar 29th 2022 at 10:45:13 AM

[up][up]Uhh…yeah! I think that video for Karl would work, provided the nudity's not an issue of course.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Mar 29th 2022 at 10:45:22 AM

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#307450: Mar 29th 2022 at 10:45:52 AM

Nudity is an issue, the site doesn't allow it in videos.


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