During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Yes to Lorenzini and Hovrak but no to Twinrova.
Anyways, I think I'll actually knock this out now. I got one from the latest World of Warcraft expansion that I kind of looked over considering how overall small his part was, but on reflection he has a truly staggering amount of blood and death on his hands.
Who is Mueh'zala?
The Night's Friend. The Father of Sleep. The Son of Time. Ueetay no Mueh'zala was ancient even as the first trolls crawled out of the primordial muck of Azeroth. A powerful being of death connected to the eternal afterlives of the Shadowlands. Mueh'zala was worshipped by the first troll civilizations as a loa and god of death, and noted for his extreme cruelty and bloodthirst. The most savage aspects of the troll culture including dark rituals, blood sacrifices, and cannibalism can all be traced back to his demanded forms of worship, and his thirst for sacrifice grew so great that all the various troll empires feared him greatly. A priest of his, Bwomsamdi, was raised to loa status for his service and Bwonsamdi immediately went about usurping worshippers from Mueh'zala by simply being a more amicable and friendly deity. Over time, Bwonsamdi became the new loa of death and Mueh'zala was reduced to being worshipped only by a single tribe. Seeking to regain his lost power and prominence, Mueh'zala looked to the Shadowlands and became the first follower of Zovaal the Jailer on Azeroth.
Mueh'zala took to scheming and providing useful assets for new host in exchange for power. When the titan keeper Odyn sought to peer into the Shadowlands, Mueh'zala gave him the sight in exchange for his left eye, which he then delivered to the Jailer. The Eye was twisted into a powerful weapon that behaved much like the Eye of Sauron as gave the Jailer complete vision over the Maw in which he controlled. Recognizing the darkness that lay in the heart of the goddess Helya, Mueh'zala watched as she was tricked into imprisoning Odyn in his halls and observed her creation of her own realm to guide the souls of the dead. He turned Helya to the Jailer's service and she would go on to send her Kvaldir to raid and massacre coastal settlements throughout history. Most recently and most heinously, Mueh'zala whispered to the dying troll and Horde Warchief Vol'jin and tricked him into naming Sylvanas Windrunner as his successor. Sylvanas, who has also made a pact with the Jailer, led the genocide of the night elves and plunged the Horde and Alliance into the deadliest world war in their shared histories. All the souls that perished in this conflict were sent straight into the Maw to be tortured and twisted into an endless army of the damned for the Jailer. This was Mueh'zala's greatest gift to his master.
Not stopping there, Mueh'zala serves as a secondary antagonist in the current Shadowlands expansion. He travels to the afterlife of Ardenweald to corrupt the souls of dead loa such as the animalistic wild spirits of Azeroth. Dominating the local spriggans and boggarts, he sends them out to spread chaos and destruction while he steals the wildseeds the loa souls are resting in until they can be reborn. Some evil loa such as Hakkar the Soulflayer and the serpent Dambala chose to willingly serve Mueh'zala, but many others refused and were cast down into the Maw where they were tortured and drained of their essence until left on the verge of annihilation. Bwonsamdi eventually caught on to these atrocities and set out to the stop his master with the help of the player. They are able to rally the armies of Ardenweald led by the Winter Queen to fight back and drive Mueh'zala out of the forest. Yet the death god retreats to claim a secondary prize. Bwonsamdi had used his power to keep the soul of every troll on Azeroth out of the Maw and his former master Mueh'zala sought to invade his realm and deliver these countless souls to the Jailer for processing. In "De Other Side" dungeon, the players follow Bwonsamdi's plan to depower Mueh'zala and eventually defeat him. Bwomsamdi heavily implies he's going to be tormenting his former master until the end of time.
Heinous standard?
I initially brushed off Mueh'zala since he was a relatively minor character in the expansion, but upon looking I realized he was technically responsible for more death than any other character in the expansion except the Jailer himself. While he does little himself by comparison to other people who serve the Jailer like Sylvanas or Kel'thuzad, his manipulations blow them both out of the water with him being directly responsible for the former. Combined with his horrific past of causing the troll's more savage traits and his actions in the Ardenweald story, I think he more than meets the heinous standard of the franchise.
Any mitigating factors?
While it was very recently revealed the Jailer was a Well-Intentioned Extremist, it's made abundantly clear that Mueh'zala didn't know or care about the Jailer's master plans and did everything he did solely for the sake of more power.
Final Verdict?
Easy
here.
Charlie Writeup:
- Charlie Hesketh is a vindictive, elitist bully who was chosen to be a Kingsman candidate, before being rejected for being willing to sell out the Agency when threatened. In response Charlie throws his hat in with Richmond Valentine and even attempts to sabotage Eggsy as he tries to stop Valentines plan to wipe out most of Humanity. Surviving the first film, he is recruited by the Golden Circle and assists with Poppy Adams Scheme to hold hundreds of millions hostage with her drug, he hacks into the Kingsman servers and allows for the entire organization to be purged so Poppy's plan could begin. Later on he personally destroys an entire building filled with his fellow Golden Circle members, including his own girlfriend for cheating on him, just to keep the heroes from getting the antidote. In the film's climax, Charlie tries to make a run with the case that can release the antidote before laying a brutal beatdown onto Eggsy.
Hovrak
Mueh'zala
Edited by KazuyaProta on Mar 29th 2022 at 2:12:45 PM
Watch me destroying my countryVote Counter for Rasputin so far (I believe):
- Cut 13 : Papyru, Emerald Emperor, Powermaster, ACW, Snoketrope, Mariogalaxy, 43, Dood, Nwot, Scraggle, Fortunescale, Dukenukem, Wat
- Keep 6: Ordeaux, Future, G, Lighty, Jackie, Master N,
- Abstain/Staying out of it 5 : Ravok, Skycat, Georgie, Me, Mir
Edited by WetFlannels on Mar 29th 2022 at 10:33:53 AM
What's wrong D-16? Rise up!What about this picture
◊. Joker killing Jim Gordon's wife by threatening a baby from Batman: No Man's Land
?
Alright, so the main issue I think Rasputin has in his film alone is Erik. Allowing a lot more people to die is one thing, but Erik, alongside Rasputin are basically at the same tier in their organization and Erik is the one who actually convinces the Kaiser to go to war, and also tried to manipulate Mexico to go to war with the US. Rasputin is "just" a monk who manipulated his way to the Tsar sure, but he's also literally the Tsar's advisor. It's not like his influence is exactly small.
Erik on the other hand is an occultist himself, a wealthy one sure but I don't think the distinction is adequate in terms of their ability to manipulate people if it's only somewhat based on (at least prior) social standing when Rasputin directly helps the Tsar decide what to do, whether he started as a monk or not doesn't seem to make much difference by the present in terms of what they can do by the film's events. It's really hard to see how Rasputin stands out in any way in his own movie, let alone all three. Don't really think keeping Russia out of the way so Germany can inflict more casualties is as bad as what Erik does which is manipulating entire countries to going to war with each other.
Lastly, don't think Rasputin getting more focus really helps his case, if anything you'd expect a villain with more focus to be worse than villains with less or at least actually as bad.
Maybe I'm missing something but this is what seems to be the case.
Edited by Fortunescale155 on Mar 29th 2022 at 2:51:08 AM

Eh honestly from the sounds of it I wouldn't fully mind Caesar Clown going though I don't particularly care either way.