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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#307351: Mar 28th 2022 at 3:09:52 PM

Okay, what's a quick candidate I can do to settle the thread a bit...uh...

Oh, here's a quickie! T'ai Fu: Wrath of the Tiger was an old PS1 game featuring a kung-fu tiger named T'ai Fu. It was produced by a then little-known studio called "Dreamworks Interactive", a branch of the not-much-better-known and then-young Dream Works. In essence, this game is kind of a weird spiritual precursor to Kung Fu Panda, complete with a similar setting with kung-fu funny animals in China.

What has the Dragon Master done?

The leader of the Dragon Clan, and the tyrannical ruler of China, the Dragon Master is the game's main antagonist. Having ruled over and terrorized the many Clans that make up China, the Dragon Master's chief concern was saved for the noble White Tiger Clan, whose power was the only thing that could threaten the Dragon Master's reign. Solution: genocide. The Dragon Master exterminated the entire clan, including T'ai Fu's father, whose soul has been in constant unrest until T'ai Fu finally tracks down his ancestral home and learns what the Dragon Master did to it.

A then-young T'ai Fu was the only survivor of this extermination, and he was raised by benevolent panda monks in secrecy. However, when the Dragon King learns T'ai Fu survives, he attacks the temple, slaughtering the benevolent monks living there. T'ai Fu sets off on an epic quest to defeat the evil Dragon Master once and for all, setting his father's soul to rest and finally defeating the Dragon Master in a pitched battle (who, before he dies, picks the low-hanging Kick the Dog moment and decides to mock T'ai Fu about his dead dad).

Any mitigating factors?

Yeah, zilch. The game's pretty short on story (the manual expands on him a bit, but all of this is mostly stuff based in-game) but the Dragon Master is hitting pretty much every box we need. He's a basic villain, but from a fun, unique little game and kind of a cool chapter in the history of Dream Works.

Conclusion?

Hey, why not? Keeper.

Edited by Scraggle on Mar 28th 2022 at 4:11:06 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#307352: Mar 28th 2022 at 3:11:57 PM

[tup]dragon master

So is this where Jeffrey Katzenberg got the idea to do Kung Fu Panda?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#307353: Mar 28th 2022 at 3:12:19 PM

Yes to Dragon Master.

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#307354: Mar 28th 2022 at 3:12:59 PM

[tup] for the Dragon Master.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#307355: Mar 28th 2022 at 3:14:39 PM

[tup] to the Dragon Master.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#307356: Mar 28th 2022 at 3:15:46 PM

[tup] Dragon Master. Rather unexpected but cool.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#307357: Mar 28th 2022 at 3:17:38 PM

Oh my god, I've played that! Yes, it's coming back to me. Keeper.

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#307359: Mar 28th 2022 at 3:22:18 PM

Pretty basic, but going all Final Solution seems enough.

What's the trope for when the hero manages to be the Sole Survivor of a massacre? Plot Armor?

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#307360: Mar 28th 2022 at 3:22:19 PM

Oh yeah, I’ve heard of this one. [tup] Dragon Master

It's Spooky Month!
Misry6 Imperfect Disgrace from the Eternal Nothingness Since: Nov, 2021 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Imperfect Disgrace
#307361: Mar 28th 2022 at 3:31:37 PM

[tup] Dragon Master. Not much personality there, but being power-hungry should be enough.

Just an empty void…
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#307362: Mar 28th 2022 at 3:38:34 PM

[tup] Charlie and the Dragon Master.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Misry6 Imperfect Disgrace from the Eternal Nothingness Since: Nov, 2021 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Imperfect Disgrace
#307363: Mar 28th 2022 at 3:45:31 PM

And now, I have a quote request for Wizards (2020):

Nari: Since the beginning, the Order has sought to protect the balance of magic and mortal, no matter the cost, but our actions only brought pain.
Merlin: I've spent a millennium keeping their horrors at bay, but it wasn't enough.
Nari: Bellroc and Skreal believe humanity is lost, beyond correction. Now, they wish to end it all. They search for the Genesis Seals.
Merlin: If the Seals are broken, raw, uncontrolled magic shall rise upon the world, wiping it like a flood.
Nari: All of the Arcane Order must be present to open the Seals; that is why I fled.
Merlin: I've hidden the Seals away, but we must keep Bellroc and Skrael away from them and Nari, or it is the end… of
all things!
Merlin and Nari discussing Bellroc and Skrael's hypocrisy and their plan to end the universe, Wizards (2020)

Edited by Misry6 on Mar 28th 2022 at 3:50:12 AM

Just an empty void…
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#307364: Mar 28th 2022 at 3:49:07 PM

[tup]Dragon Master

[tdown]Bellroc & Skrael quote, not getting CM vibes

Edited by nwotyzal on Mar 28th 2022 at 3:49:17 AM

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#307365: Mar 28th 2022 at 3:51:00 PM

Not feeling the quote.

W: Doomed Hometown covers when the hero's village is massacred.

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#307366: Mar 28th 2022 at 3:56:24 PM

[tup] to Dragon Master.

Abstain on Charlie.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
YobabyColin Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#307369: Mar 28th 2022 at 4:13:34 PM

I love the idea that Scraggle just has a bunch of backup Eps to post whenever the thread needs something to vote on. Yes there.

Blazing_Larvesta Blazing Larvesta from Unova Route 18 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Blazing Larvesta
#307370: Mar 28th 2022 at 4:14:29 PM

I've been thinking over some things for a while regarding the CM trope, and at this point, I have to ask if Caesar Clown still qualifies for this trope? Don't get me wrong, his actions, especially during Punk Hazard, are certainly heinous enough for the trope, but starting in Dressrosa, he seems to have been turned into a massive butt monkey (stuff like being used and abused by the Straw Hats during his time as their hostage and his Gangster Gastino persona), even if arcs such as Zou still demonstrate the carnage he has caused. I know we've already cut Caribou and Spandam from the trope for not being treated seriously enough, so do you guys think he still counts despite how he's treated post-Punk Hazard?

KJsixteen BORK from The Alola Region Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
BORK
#307371: Mar 28th 2022 at 4:40:55 PM

Hey guys, Rykard got an unapproved CM entry, even though he doesn't count since he loves his wife and daughter.

Also, [tup] to Dragon Master.

[down]Thanks!

Edited by KJsixteen on Mar 28th 2022 at 6:47:50 AM

Google Snake Game.
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#307372: Mar 28th 2022 at 4:45:41 PM

[up]I Just cut it

Also Ordeaux for the Joker video try from about 1:30 to 2:35 or so for timestamps.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#307373: Mar 28th 2022 at 4:46:37 PM

That works in that case I will upvote.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#307374: Mar 28th 2022 at 5:03:12 PM

I'm near-certain our last consensus on Caesar Clown is that he can be kept for now but we're ready to give him the boot if the show keeps clamping down on him as a joke. IDK if any new developments have happened since.

Okay, so I really don't see votes swinging against the Dragon Master, so...

  • The Hellbenders: Jeff and Nat lack the redeeming qualities of their father, ex-Confederate Jones. Jeff is a slimy, evil rapist while Nat is greed personified; together, the two gleefully help their dad ambush and slaughter dozens of Union soldiers for their gold, pitilessly gunning down even the dying and ending by murdering their own partners in the debacle. Jeff murders the first woman Jones brings aboard to help with his scheme of restarting the Confederacy, then attempts to rape the second, while Nat pointlessly kills a harmless, blind old priest for fun. At the film's end, Jeff rapes and murders the daughter of a Sioux chief instead of finding help for his mortally-wounded father, while Nat attempts to betray and murder his family, including his good-hearted brother Ben, to make off with the Union gold himself.

  • T'ai Fu: Wrath of the Tiger: The Dragon Master, the cruel tyrant of China, is the one behind all the game's woes and the one who exterminated the noble White Tiger Clan in the past when they posed a threat to his evil, of which T'ai Fu was the only survivor. Among his countless victims is T'ai Fu's father, whose spirit has lingered in unrest since the day of the massacre. The Dragon Master even attacks and slaughters innocent panda monks when he relocates T'ai Fu years later at a temple, attempting to complete his genocide then and there.

  • Paranoia: Nicholas Wyatt is a greedy Corrupt Corporate Executive with a habit of digging his fingers into the lives of his innocent employees so he can blackmail them into committing corporate espionage against his rival, Jock Goddard. When he's done with them, Wyatt inevitably murders his employees, leaving at least three people dead before he blackmails the protagonist Adrian into working for him. When Adrian tries to back out, Wyatt coldly threatens to kill not just Adrian but every single person he loves, including his sick, elderly father, proving his point by having one of Wyatt's friends run over; to Wyatt, it was a choice of the friend or Adrian's girlfriend first.

  • G.I. Joe: Big Boa is the head of a youth indoctrination camp which molds dozens of innocent kids no older than ten into feral, unthinking killing machines ready to live and die for COBRA. When the Joes ally with an ex-HYDRA agent named Siren to rescue her son Isaac from Big Boa's clutches, they find Big Boa has already long ago squeezed out the individuality from Isaac and countless other kids, only one of whom is able to be saved from Big Boa's monstrous psychological conditioning.

Edited by Scraggle on Mar 28th 2022 at 6:04:47 AM

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities

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