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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#306526: Mar 22nd 2022 at 7:30:57 AM

[tup] Evil Ghost Dude

It's Spooky Month!
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#306527: Mar 22nd 2022 at 7:31:58 AM

[tup] to the Evil Ghost Dude

Abstain on Gwendolyn

Alright got a candidate from a movie I just watched, and rewatched the scene my candidate was in. The movie is The Protege so let us talk about it.

What’s The Work

The Protégé is a 2021 American action thriller film that stars Maggie Q and Samuel L. Jackson. The premise here is that Maggie’s character Anna, was rescued as a child by the legendary assassin Moody, and is now the world's most skilled contract killer. However Moody is brutally killed, leading Anna to seek revenge for the man who taught her everything she knows. Of course Moody turns out to be alive and the guy who tried to have Moody killed is not the candidate I’ll be discussing, but rather a flashback villain, The gang leader simply named Chu.

Who is He? What Has He Done?

Chu is a local gang leader that led a massacre in the city Da Nang that killed countless people, most prominent being Anna’s entire family. To describe in more detail, Chu has Anna and her family taken out of their home, having Anna’s mother decapitated right in front of her before having the head shown to Anna, and executes Anna’s father and her two little sisters with a machine pistol when the father spits in his face.

Chu would then take Anna to his hideout where he decides to kill her there assembling, one of his gun, and unbuttoning Anna’s shirt and spreading a towel on the floor, implying that Chu intends to rape Anna before killing her. However Anna has assembled Chu’s other gun before using it to kill Chu and his gang and Anna would later be discovered by assassin Moody, who decides to take her under his wing

Freudian Excuse Redeeming Qualities? Other Militating Factors?

No Chu isn’t given any backstory and is never given why he committed this atrocities other than For the Evulz, is never shown any redeeming and sympathetic traits whatsoever and in the limited screen time displays enough personality to establish himself as a sadistic monster, having him laugh as causing the massacre that murdered Anna’s family, and only deciding to Anna to his hideout to kill her there before raping her.

Heinousness

While the Big Bad, Edward Hayes, may also seem heinous enough to be considered having issued a hit on Moody that led to three people getting killed said to partake in human trafficking and has committed other crimes in the past, He does have a disabled son whom he loves and pays for his care unanimously so he’s out.

Chu on the other hadn’t is not the Big Bad being a flashback villain that appears in the end to explain Anna’s Dark and Troubled Past, and Edward Hayes is a billionaire while Chu is just a leader of a local Gang, but with his limited screen time Chu has commit a massacre that killed numerous innocence, including Anna’s family who he had brutality killed in front of Anna, and attempts to kill Anna in his hideout with heavy implications that he plans to rape her who may I say Anna was a child at that time. Yeah he definitely does more than enough to stand out.

Final Verdict?

I’ll leave it to you guys

[down] I can assure you that I didn’t having re-watched the scenes he was in before doing the EP

Edited by G-Editor on Mar 22nd 2022 at 10:51:44 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
mariogalaxy Since: Feb, 2022
#306528: Mar 22nd 2022 at 7:35:58 AM

you didn’t leave anything out, right?

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#306529: Mar 22nd 2022 at 7:36:46 AM

Yes to the Evil Ghostbuster and Chu for now.

~Lightysnake Anyways, it's been two weeks since the Jailer's death in World of Warcraft. Lighty is supposed to be handling the discussion on him. I'm not sure if he's doing a full effort post or just a discussion, but I have some points of my own on Denathrius and Mal'ganis that I want to bounce off of the above character.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#306530: Mar 22nd 2022 at 8:05:09 AM

[tup] to evil Ghostbuster guy and Chu

YobabyColin Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#306532: Mar 22nd 2022 at 9:35:49 AM

Yes to Mezalord, Chu, whoever Lighty proposed there [lol] and Ravok's non-ambiguously not named guy.

No to Gwendolyn.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#306533: Mar 22nd 2022 at 9:37:25 AM

[tup]chu.

Not going to lie im legit curious how this writeup is going to read. [up]

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
hegelvonaxel Since: Feb, 2018
#306536: Mar 22nd 2022 at 10:14:33 AM

Effort post. I hope i will detailed as possible since it is one time villain

Work

Assassin's Creed Odyssey is eleventh main game in the franchise. The game is set in Ancient Greece and follows a mercanery called the Eagle Bearer

Candidate

Crazy scholar from side quest Elixir is an unnamed scholar of Sappho School of Lesbos. After the Eagle Bearer saved her from wolves, she tasked them to collect ingredients for her elixir which she states can be used to free Medusa's victims from petrifications.

After they had collected ingredients, the Eagle Bearer went to scholar's workshop at Sappho School to bring them. In workshop they noticed a dead body, bloodied rags and severed limb. On a balcony near side entrance there is a pile of at least eight dead bodies. There are also two unfinished stone statues. Interacting with them, the Eagle Bearer will comment how those aren't petrified statues but there are dead bodies inside them.

After they brought ingredients to a scholar, she asks them to drink a dose of her elixir.

Should the Eagle Bearer drank, she would comment how by using the elixir on live subjects she noticed we all turn to stone after death and then would attack them.

Should they refuse, scholar would insist stating how she needs a model for her statues and then also attack.

Mitigating factors.

Nothing. The Game calls her crazy but nothing indicates she doesn't know right from wrong.

Heinousness.

Now tricky part.

Almost all Cultists and Order members have more resources than her. Those who have same resources as her don't do anything. Other villains have smaller number of victims and there is no other serial killer in the game. She has at least eleven victim. She killed people so she could cast them into statues.

Regarding serial killers in franchise of which i know, two of them are currently listed as CM. Tobias from Syndicate who made leathers using skins of his victims and sent their meat to bakery so people involuntary committed canibalism and Embalmer from Origin who for entertainment throw people to crocodiles. There are also in Origin a Prophet of Serqet a leader of a cult of Serqet which had priests of other cults killed so he woud achieve immortality and Jack the Ripper in Syndicate. Both of them have more resources than her.

Conclusion.

I let thread decide.

Warning

Unfortunately there is no avaible video showing pile of dead bodies but it still can be viewed after a quest at Sappho School.

PS

I tried to make post detailed as possible but i honestly don't know what else to add.

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#306537: Mar 22nd 2022 at 10:25:22 AM

Very tentative yes to scholar but again, I am the guy who E Ped La Touche recently (who got downvoted).

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#306538: Mar 22nd 2022 at 10:32:11 AM

I think I can give a [tup] to the scholar since she’s just a Serial Killer with less resources than the other villains in Odyssey

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Mediawatcher Since: Dec, 2015
#306539: Mar 22nd 2022 at 10:51:23 AM

[tup] scholar, chu, evil ghostbuster

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#306540: Mar 22nd 2022 at 10:52:41 AM

Only 11? Even for less resources that seems small. At least Tobias seemed to enjoy having people unknowingly eat other people.

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#306541: Mar 22nd 2022 at 10:57:01 AM

Eh.. Not so sure on the Scholar, AC has worse killers with low resources.

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#306542: Mar 22nd 2022 at 10:57:55 AM

Abstain on Scholar

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#306543: Mar 22nd 2022 at 11:04:41 AM

[tup] to the Ghost Leader

[tdown] to the scholar. I don't think she breaches the series stupidly high heinous standard even with lower resources

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#306544: Mar 22nd 2022 at 11:10:58 AM

Yah, no to the scholar. Killers in Assassins Creed need to be damn special and she isn't kicking out of her weight class. The only new guy who may make it is Surt and I need to check the Ragnarok DLC for that.

Okay, so....Zovaal the Jailer probably doesn't keep. They reveal in his last seconds of life he planned to take over and unite the cosmos so it could survive "what is to come." Is this a ridiculous asspull? Yes. Does this make ANY sense with his established character? No. Is it disqualifying? Probably.

Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#306545: Mar 22nd 2022 at 11:12:27 AM

[up] Sorry who is Zovaal the Jailer?

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#306546: Mar 22nd 2022 at 11:16:54 AM

[up]The Big Bad of the recent World of Warcraft expansion who Lighty waited 2 years to cover believing he would be an incredibly easy keeper.

Here's his defeat cut scene for who want to see it.

Edited by LoreDeluxe on Mar 22nd 2022 at 11:17:56 AM

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#306547: Mar 22nd 2022 at 11:18:05 AM

Switching to a no on the scholar.

[up][up] Zovaal the jailer? I am not familiar with any Assassins Creed character with that name...

Edited by emperors on Mar 22nd 2022 at 2:18:38 PM

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#306548: Mar 22nd 2022 at 11:19:27 AM

[up] it's a Warcraft character not a Assassin's Creed character

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#306549: Mar 22nd 2022 at 11:20:48 AM

My bad. It's just that AC Creed was being discussed so I got a little confused.

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#306550: Mar 22nd 2022 at 11:30:17 AM

My next Elden Ring example: The Loathsome Dung Eater.

Who is the Dung Eater?

A rather sinister Tarnished. The Dung Eater was not buried with honors, nor did he die gloriously. He was unceremoniously lynched. The hero later meets him within his hold, where the Dung Eater engages in a disturbingly friendly manner.

As items descriptions reveal, you discover items on corpses that have been bound to chairs, painfully murdered, with an item called the Seedbed Curse. These grow upon the bodies of those killed and defiled by the Dung Eater with a horrific fate: their souls are barred from returning to the Erdtree, the great source tree. They cannot reincarnate, damning them.

The Dung Eater has spread so far and killed and defiled thousands in such a manner with no plans to stop anytime soon. And in his questline, the Tarnished can bring him enough so he can curse the Elden Ring, to spread this to everything living.

Why's he do it? Because he wants to. Because he can. There's no rhyme or reason to it. He's just a monster. The player can kill him along the way, complete his quest. Or give him Seluvis's potion, meant for the warrior woman Nepheli, exterminating his identity, and the only thing he seems to truly fear.

Mitigating issues?

There are many corpses with the Seedbed curse, murdered and defiled with some ritualistic torture to the mix. Many of the bodies have bleeding at the groins, implying a form of mutilation, or rape.

This guy is one fuck off serial killer and yet he's a gigantic threat to the entire world, with one of the most monstrous fates ever in Fromsoft. Yeah, let's put him up.

Conclusion?

H Oo yeah


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