During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
For fate grand order. The servant we play as is a copy of the antagonsit we kill.
This is so the game can have actual consequences for them but also so you can buy a version of them later (it's a gatcha game)
Edited by miraculous on Mar 21st 2022 at 12:52:09 PM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."In the context of the game, that's very confusing. I've never played Fate Grand Order and have no interest to, so can you explain that more.
Edit: So does the copy inherently have a different personality? It feels like a copy would have the same general qualities as the original.
Edited by LoreDeluxe on Mar 21st 2022 at 12:53:29 PM
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.The rape and butchery of the Caribbean is part of his profile and stated by Da Vinci in the chapter itself. It never specifies that he wants the women of Agartha as sex slaves, but he does say they'd make good slaves in general.
As for the non-Agartha appearances… they’re non-canon comedic event stories. He has yet to appear in the main story outside of Agartha.
FGO!Columbus. The game talks about his evil in materials outside of Agartha, but there's no actual depiction. Inside of Agartha, the leaders are arguably more heinous than he is what with all the casual murder, torture, and enslavement of both the traditional and sexual variety.
Edited by erazor0707 on Mar 21st 2022 at 2:57:49 PM
No, since it's stuff he did in life rather than as a Servant.
[notes that profile information is offstage villainy]
Anyway, the stuff he did in Agartha itself is pretty explicit, and he outright says that he wants to enslave the Agarthans; the only reason he fails is because we kill him. We know exactly what he wanted to do, because he tells us as much after betraying us.
Also, I just remembered the context for Columbus burning down the rebel hideout.
The Resistance had just lost half their men and had lost morale. Columbus' response was to burn down their only safe place and pin the blame on their enemies, to give them no choice but to keep going.
Edited by Voyd211 on Mar 21st 2022 at 1:11:04 AM
Going to have to change my
to abstain. Seems like, even if Gameplay and Story Segregation is involved, he dosent do much that isn’t Offscreen Villainy and others do way worse.
I debated including this in my Mezalord proposal, but since it's a separate story and of questionable canon, I figured I'd do a separate proposal for it so it can have a separate entry.
What is the work?
SIC Hero Saga are stories published in Monthly Hobby Japan to promote the Super Imaginitive Chogokin toyline, which features grittier and more realistic figures of classic Toku heroes. The story we'll be looking at is Before and After, the questionably canon Akumaizer 3 prequel''.
The story follows the father of Xavitan, who is also named "Xavitan" and looks just like his son except he's white and has wings, as he attempts his own rebellion against the Akuma Clan years before his son would do so.
Who is the villain? What does he do?
Mezalord, the Big Bad of Akumaizer 3.
Mezalord turns out to have been the childhood friend of the first Xavitan. As an adult, he became one of the military commanders of the Akuma Clan's ruling regime and rallied the Clan to invade the surface, as well as leading them on "human hunts".
Xavitan however entered the forbidden records of the Akuma Clan and discovered that the Akuma Clan had originally lived on the surface, much like humans, before migrating into the center of the Earth. Learning this caused Xavitan to believe that the demons of the Akuma Clan were the same as humans and rebel against the pro-invasion Akuma Clan regime.
Xavitan attempted to free the humans Mezalord and his forces had taken hostage, but all were killed except for one, a woman named Chiyo Shirasagi. Xavitan fell in love with her and attempted to help her escape but Mezalord led a regiment in hunting them down. Mezalord killed his childhood friend, but suffered injuries to his face in the process that forced him to mechanize. Mezalord then used the incident to introduce a new law in the Akuma Clan constitution requiring all newborn Akuma males to have circuits implanted in their head that would allow him to torture them should they defy the Clan. Among those affected by this was the newborn son that Xavitan had conceived with Chiyo prior to his death, whom she named "Xavitan" after his late father (and who would eventually become the Xavitan we know in Akumaizer 3.
Heinous Standard
It's a shorter narrative, but Mezalord is still shown to be as big a scumbag as he is in the series itself, especially by the end of the story where he mandates installing torture circuits inside the heads of newborn babies.
Mitigating Factors
The story does show he was childhood friends with Xavitan, but by the time both are adults, Mezalord has no issue with trying to kill his former friend for stepping out of line. Besides that, nothing else that could be considered a mitigating factor is present in it.
Final Verdict
I guess that version counts. Is that a comic, or more literature?
Also, video possibility. I feel like the example at Dragon Ball Z: Bardock - The Father of Goku could also work as a CM example for Frieza.
Mezalord
Columbus, for everything I hear, a fair bit of his actions are Offscreen Villainy. Thought I always feel curiosity of why him avoids the massive Historical Hero Upgrade of so many servants.
Edited by KazuyaProta on Mar 21st 2022 at 4:56:08 AM
Watch me destroying my countryThank you, Erazor. Gona vote nay here.
So,I think I'm gonna do my next Elden Ring. Second of four:
Preceptor Seluvis.
Who is Preceptor Seluvis?
Seluvis, or Pidia (one or the other, I will explained later)
NPC's in From Soft games generally provide hub-world assistance, give you Side Quests, or both. They're usually interesting, colorful folks. Some are helpful, some run their own agenda, some lose their damn minds, and some are pure fucking evil.
Yeah.
Seluvis was an instructor at the royal academy before that went topside. Now he works with the Lunar Witch, the demigoddess Ranni, Queen Marika's stepdaughter. Seluvis specializes in puppet magic. Pidia is a servant to the royal family who may or may not be controlling Seluvis...but?
I digress. The important thing is this puppetry magic requires a living being and turns them into a living puppet. And I Must Scream is in full effect and Seluvis is perfecting the process to make it even stronger. It turns out that he is a serial rapist, turning women into his "dolls"...and to rope you into it, he gives you apotion with instructions to give it to the warrior woman Nepheli. Which will turn her into his sex slave, with implications he also tried to take the daughter of the Tarnished Champion gideon. Seluvis's ultimate goal is to take Ranni herself, rape her and invites the player to join him and Pidia.
The plot can resolve several ways. Even helping Seluvis gets him killed, but he absolutely gets his. Attempting to do this to Ranni gets him ended...but it's possible for Seluvis to be found in the same broken pose as a puppet, and the "dolls" will turn on Pidia and kill him.
Mitigating issues?
Okay, so we're in as bit of a situation: obviously things are down to, shall we say, implication. Which From Soft often works on...now, it's never stated Seluvis is just a puppet of Pidia, but I wanted to be up front. whichever guy is responsible, they're absolutely a CM here. This is the first time I thin we've seen a flat out serial rapist mind destroying women to create a puppet collection.
No good qualities whatsoever. And judging by reactions NP Cs? This is a fate of absolute nightmare.
Fuck this guy.
Conclusion?
A yes to Seluvis (Or Pidia)

Not feeling Yoma. That and the Part 4 characters make several appearances in Thus Spoke Kishibe Rohan (heck, a common running gag is Josuke being only seen from the back), so I'm not sure how to take the JojoVeller info in account.
Either way, Yoma has to square up either against the likes of Kenzo (who slaughtered more people without a Stand) either against the likes of the unknown soldier who manages to be more fucked despite a lower account of victims and resources.
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)