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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#306426: Mar 21st 2022 at 9:20:48 AM

Honestly, I know Scraggle did an EP for the new entry, but I'm not sure there even WAS an original. He may've just been grandfathered in.

YobabyColin Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
#306427: Mar 21st 2022 at 9:43:35 AM

Yes to Westernholtz. No to Carl.

DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#306428: Mar 21st 2022 at 10:35:20 AM

[tup] to the Mad Thinker, Leehat, Godrick, Melody Vilente, and Westenholtz.

[tdown] to Ben Drowned and Carl Killick.

@ACW: Looks good. The only suggestion I would make is to add RAAM's Shadow to the titular characters list of appearances, maybe between the "First Game" and The Rise of RAAM. Thank you.

@43110: Thank you smile

Misry6 Imperfect Disgrace from the Eternal Nothingness Since: Nov, 2021 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Imperfect Disgrace
#306429: Mar 21st 2022 at 10:39:07 AM

[tup] Westenholtz.

Switching to [tdown] Carl.

Just an empty void…
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#306430: Mar 21st 2022 at 10:45:25 AM

switching to [tdown] on Carl (the heinousness in this one movie seems through the roof)

Edited by nwotyzal on Mar 21st 2022 at 11:01:02 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#306431: Mar 21st 2022 at 10:47:17 AM

So thusly?

  • Gears of War franchise:
    • First game; RAAM's Shadow & The Rise of RAAM comics: General RAAM
    • The Rise of RAAM & Tactics: Ukkon

DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#306433: Mar 21st 2022 at 11:11:20 AM

A new the Witcher game has been announced.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#306435: Mar 21st 2022 at 11:26:20 AM

[tup] Westenholtz, Melody, Godrick

[tdown] Carl

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#306436: Mar 21st 2022 at 11:43:41 AM

Pending stuff:

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#306437: Mar 21st 2022 at 11:52:19 AM

When was Ende ep'd?

I don't remember that.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#306438: Mar 21st 2022 at 11:54:32 AM

He wasn't EP'd yet, but I know Scraggle's gonna get to him, so...

Also, for the MCU, the Skrulls have a page, so I added that to Ronan's entry and just chopped The Starscream pothole.

PlatinumOni Since: May, 2021
#306439: Mar 21st 2022 at 11:56:30 AM

A interesting Jo Jo proposal.

What’s The work?

Thus spoke Kishibe Rohan is an spin-off storyline of Jo Jo’s Bizarre Adventures, The story focuses on the Adventures of an Japanese Manga Artist, Kishibe Rohan, and his narration of his adventures towards his friends.

Who is He / What did He do?

Yoma Hashimoto is the Big Bad of episode 9 ‘the run’. He is scouted by an Model Production Agency who gave him multiple jobs for publicity, such as being in the magazine and having a minor role in a film.

The Manager tasked him to work out in order to show his good talents more frequently. So, he gets a membership in Morioh Cho’s Grand Hotel gym, where he met Rohan, who became rivals to an treadmill game.

However, instead of stopping in a certain point, Yoma started to have a narcissistic streak on his body and becomes obsessed with working out and keeping himself healthy. Living in his girlfriend, Mika’s Apartment, he starts using her money to fill the room with gym equipments, orders her girlfriend to give specific food in order to get herself healthy, and scolded a Parcel deliveryman who knocked on their door in 7 p.m due to disturbing his sleep schedule, and even went far as vandalizing his entire apartment with Indoor Rock Climbing machines.

Then One day, Rohan and Yoma meet again in the gym with the two doing the treadmill race. However, Rohan realized that Yoma planned to do something else, while running, he destroyed the window behind them so the loser of the race falls off from the speed of the treadmill and dies falling from the window, breaking Rohan’s hands in the process when he proceeds to stop.

In fear, Rohan uses his ability to see what Yoma actually was, and he gets record on his actions for the past few days, it turned out that he killed 3 people: His girlfriend, the Parcel delivery man, and another gym member who was taking Yoma’s Trainer’s schedule, burying them in cement on various places such as his apartment walls, shower room roof, and at the parking lot of his apartment.

During the race, Rohan manipulates Yoma to stop HIS OWN treadmill when he wins, Yoma loses his balance when he is deceived and falls off the roof… However, Rohan believes that he was some kind of an man possessed by an god of muscles, hanging on the building, and proceeds to flee. With this hand taking 3 weeks to heal.

Mitigating Factors?

No, his mindset is literally ‘gym, gym, gym’. Meaning that he has no loyalty to hsi girlfriend as he abused him psychologically, his relationship with his superior is possibly just a facade to show himself as a normal citizen. He also has clear moral agency despite being ‘possessed by god of muscles’.

Heinous Standards?

You might be wondering how 3 deaths can make someone heinous in JJBA, well, According to Jo Jo Veller, TSKR is set in an alternative universe of Part 8, making the main and the rebooted continuity’s villains non-existent in this universe.

So in TSKR Universe, there is various antagonists, but some of them have redeeming qualities (Such as the worker from ‘at a confessional’) or barely does anything (such as The servant from Millionaire village, Girlfriend from Mutsukabe Hill).

Yoma in the other hand his a abusive boyfriend who financially abused his girlfriend, a serial killer responsible for 3 deaths including his girlfriend, has a unique crime of burying them in cement and vandalism on a hotel and a apartment building, with no motives other than his own ego, making him stand out compared to other villains in the TSKR Universe.

Final Verdict

Yes

Edited by PlatinumOni on Mar 21st 2022 at 11:58:36 AM

Voyd211 (Edited uphill both ways)
#306440: Mar 21st 2022 at 12:17:04 PM

I’m back on my bullshit, and this time I’ve got someone from the Nasuverse to talk about. I don’t know how to start this, so let’s just get into the effortpost.

What's the Work?

Subterranean World of Folklore: Agartha is the second chapter in Fate/Grand Order's Epic of Remnant. It's a pseudo-Singularity created by the Demon God Pillar Phenex and the deeply androphobic Caster of the Nightless City, Scheherazade. Scheherazade's overwhelming fear of men resulted in the world of Agartha being a misandrist hellhole where men are slaves and torture playthings. However, in this world of female tyrants, the worst in this underground world is the man Scheherazade summoned to validate her fear of men: the Rider of the Resistance, AKA Christopher Columbus.

Who is Columbus and What Has He Done?

While the real Columbus was a nasty piece of work, Fate somehow managed to make him worse by stating that he butchered, raped, and enslaved the natives of the West Indies, rather than just killing them in a hissy fit and going home.

In Agartha itself, Columbus is introduced as the nameless Rider of the Resistance, the leader of a bunch of men he rescued from the three queendoms of Agartha. Throughout the story, he uses his charisma and optimism determination to encourage the Resistance and the protagonist Ritsuka, making plans to sink the oppressors. You successfully sink the depraved pirate city of Ys, bring down the Nightless City, tame the monstrous Megalos (a warped version of Heracles), escape the rebel hideout after it's burned down by mystery attackers, and Mercy Kill the maddened Berserker of El Dorado. You piece together more and more of his identity as you progress through the story, but everything falls into place after you defeat the last queen, whereupon he attempts to shoot you in the back.

Yeah, this guy's an asshole. Although his hopeful Determinator attitude is genuine, it's packaged the slimiest and most selfish personality you can imagine. The moment he was summoned, he encountered the Caster Helena Blavatsky, a scholarly girlish sweetheart who only wants to study Agartha because it validates the things she believed in life. Helena did nothing to warrant violence, but Columbus attacked her and almost killed her, simply because he thought she was too smart. Later in the story, he gets impatient with the Resistance, and in a bid to make them move… burns down the hideout, killing several of his own men.

Additionally, a plot point of Agartha is that the women can self-replicate without needing sex. Columbus took one look at this and decided to bring down the queendoms; not for any moral reason, but to enslave the women and sell them on the surface. All the talk about hope and pushing forward, all the encouragement to the Resistance? It was only to make them do what he wanted them to; He never gave a damn about any of them, and is willing to kill everyone who followed him if it means he gets his slaves. After all of this is revealed at once, he turns Megalos on the protagonist, despite the fact that we helped him willingly.

Mitigating Factors?

Not in the slightest. Him forming La Résistance in Agartha is explicitly done for selfish reasons and he plans to abandon them all if they don't play along with his schemes.

Heinousness Standard?

Aside from Dahut, who is explicitly brainwashed, Columbus is the most vicious asshole in Agartha and has the least reason to be. Scheherazade wants her Final Death, Phenex just wants to help Scherry, Wu Zetian is keeping an orderly kingdom the only way she knows how, and Penthesilea is out of her mind with rage, but recognizes her mistakes as she dies (as Berserkers often do). Columbus is a monster start-to-finish.

Final Verdict?

I’d say he's a keeper, but, well, my opinion isn't the only one that matters, now is it?

Edited by Voyd211 on Mar 21st 2022 at 12:18:58 PM

mariogalaxy Since: Feb, 2022
#306442: Mar 21st 2022 at 12:31:11 PM

Abstain on yoma, doesn’t that heinous

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#306443: Mar 21st 2022 at 12:32:42 PM

Is it only stated what he did to the natives and not shown in any way? Because if we don’t actually see anything, that’s Offstage Villainy. Without that, the attempted enslavement of women is the only crime I can see putting him over- and that definitely seems uniquely horrible regardless. So leaning yes, but waiting for someone more familiar with the Fate heinous standard.

Edited by MasterN on Mar 21st 2022 at 12:38:07 PM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
PlatinumOni Since: May, 2021
#306444: Mar 21st 2022 at 12:40:28 PM

[tup]Columbus

Edited by PlatinumOni on Mar 21st 2022 at 12:42:05 PM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#306445: Mar 21st 2022 at 12:41:59 PM

Three people's not much there. especially by Jojo standards. That's a nay.

I wanna say yes to Columbus here...presuming the attempted sex slavery is actually depicted.

PlatinumOni Since: May, 2021
#306446: Mar 21st 2022 at 12:42:44 PM

[up]The thing is it's set in a different universe...

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#306447: Mar 21st 2022 at 12:43:23 PM

Yes to Westenholtz, Melody, Godrick, and leaning yes to Yoma as well for now.

As for Columbus, there's all this found on his character page. Even if they can be refuted, it doesn't sound like he's played as dead seriously as we normally expect a Complete Monster to be.

  • Pet the Dog:
    • One of his few positive moments comes from his bond lines, where after reaching bond 4 he states that he considers you his equal "partner", and at bond 5 he calls you the "best partner I've ever had". Given how little he cares for others, the fact that he considers his master equal to him at bond 4 and 5 is shockingly nice coming from him.
    • His Valentine Present Exchange event as well. Columbus instead honored the present exchange and used his sheer honest Determinator traits to make many standing boiled eggs after several failures. If you expected a 'bad end' choice (similar to Kiara or B.B) from an evil man like him, you'll be surprised that you'll find none from Columbus.
    • He's also one of the Servants who ends up coming to the Master's aid at the end of Oniland.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#306448: Mar 21st 2022 at 12:45:09 PM

'Different universe' isn't clearing it with just three victims for me. That's...not much.

Voyd211 (Edited uphill both ways)
#306449: Mar 21st 2022 at 12:46:39 PM

I feel like the character we summon as playable and talk to in My Room is distinct from the one we encounter in the story. Ashiya Douman also made the list, despite the fact that as a Servant he's tryna figure out how to love is. I went purely by Columbus' actions in the Agartha story, since that seems to have been what y'all did with Douman and the Lostbelts.

Edited by Voyd211 on Mar 21st 2022 at 12:48:12 PM

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#306450: Mar 21st 2022 at 12:49:17 PM

Before I vote on Yoma, I'd like more elaboration on what the other antagonists do.

I would also Iike clarification on three things for Columbus:

  1. How onscreen is the sexual exploitation?
  2. I'd like clarification on Columbus's supposed benevolent moments.
  3. I want to make sure all of his appearances were taken into account.


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