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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#306401: Mar 21st 2022 at 7:00:43 AM

What's everyone's take on the bit k4 mentioned though? That he had one of his men bomb the Capitol?

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#306402: Mar 21st 2022 at 7:02:04 AM

Isn't that still more Walker and Eli's idea though ?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#306403: Mar 21st 2022 at 7:02:13 AM

Okay, so it wasn't just me that was hesitant.

BTW Lighty, I assume the Alas, Poor Villain for Godrick is BS (or closer to Cry for the Devil)?

k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#306405: Mar 21st 2022 at 7:04:00 AM

[up][up][up]It isn't explicitly mentioned that it was their idea. However, Killick is introduced boasting about it to Stenz when he arrives at the White House: "Did you see what my boy Conrad pulled off at the Capitol? Goddamn!" Finnerty also mentions that Killick and Conrad are directly linked as associates.

Edited by k410ren on Mar 21st 2022 at 10:05:32 AM

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#306406: Mar 21st 2022 at 7:16:42 AM

Yeah, Killick sounds bad enough in a vacuum, but probably not in the movie itself. Also, prior bad acts similar to current ones aren't really OV, but probably irrelevant at this point though.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Mar 21st 2022 at 7:31:01 AM

xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
#306407: Mar 21st 2022 at 7:35:03 AM

[tup] Godrick. While I expected Godrick based on his character sheet(unfortunately my computer cant run Elden Ring), I am suprised there are four keepers in Elden Ring. There are I think two others, Mohg is a clear keep if he is EP’d but the third if it is who I think it is, Lighty will need to make sure his supposed mitagating quality is a non issue and I am rather curious who the fourth would likely be.

Edited by xie323 on Mar 21st 2022 at 8:24:30 AM

Siegfried1337 Calabash. from The Eastern Luminant Since: Sep, 2018 Relationship Status: Will you go out with me to the End?
Calabash.
#306408: Mar 21st 2022 at 7:36:32 AM

Oi, does anyone have any reservations for the rework of Ancient King OOO after the release of Kamen Rider OOO 10th: Core Medal of Resurrection? If not, I'd like to reserve one.

P.S. would appreciate the original EP for Ancient King OOO

Eh, good enough.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#306409: Mar 21st 2022 at 7:37:32 AM

Didn't scraggle already ep him.

[up][up]Ah yes I heard about Mohg. Isn't he From Soft's only implied rapist....

Edited by miraculous on Mar 21st 2022 at 7:45:28 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#306410: Mar 21st 2022 at 7:50:22 AM

Wow, with all their villains he's the first?

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#306411: Mar 21st 2022 at 7:50:51 AM

Can we kindly stop discussing the candidates before I EP them? Common courtesy?

Edited by Lightysnake on Mar 21st 2022 at 7:51:02 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#306412: Mar 21st 2022 at 7:56:44 AM

Sorry about that. My apologies

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#306413: Mar 21st 2022 at 8:14:43 AM

I'm gonna do a different one now.

What's the work?

Empires of the Wolf is a new fantasy trilogy and the debut of author Richard Swan. The first novel, the Justice of Kings, features Helena Sedanka, a taleted clerk and assistant to the Emperor's Justice, Konrad Vonvalt. Justices are tasked with upholding the jaws and have magic powers that assist with it. Vonvalt is investigating a village for potential heresy, when things go rather topsy-turvy. Murders result and Konrad and Helena are left to investigate it.

The villain I'll be propsoing today, is the local Margrave, Westenholtz.

Who is Westenholtz?

The Margrave of Seaguard, known for his insane levels of cruelty and brutal repression of the Draedist religion. When the novel opens, Vonvalt discovers the village of Rill consists mostly of Draedists and while the religion is banned under heresy in the Empire, Vonvalt intends to deal with it as delicately as possibly, by making sure he spares everyone he can and fining others.

Westenholtz, allying with Brother Claver, a fanatical priest and secret sorcerer, opts for a different approach. Having destroyed numerous settlements before, Westenholtz rides to Rill and massacres it. Everything he can find is slaughtered with the victims burnt alive. Women are raped, children are burned and Westenholtz is only too amused by it when he meets Vonvalt later. An incensed Vonvalt demands of one of Westenholtz's men of what he did, using a powerful magic that drives the guilty to confess, where the man says he raped a woman before burning her alive. Vonvalt delivers a summary execution to him, causing an immediate hatred because him and Westenholtz. Now, the murder investigation persists, but it turns out Claver and Westenholtz are running their own conspiracy against the empire.

In a nasty move, Westenholtz decides to get rid of multiple birds with one stone and brings a siege to the town Helena and Vonvalt are in. Westenholtz callously remarks he cares nothing for the law, referring to it as nothing more than the difference between pieces of paper and steel. Vonvalt's former lover and friend, Justice August, is also present. Her mind is also linked, magically, to a fox's and Claver and Westenholtz kill it, turning August into a vegetable.

Westenholtz has the town attacked, with full massacre on his mind. Claver escapes, but Vonvalt defeats Westenholtz and subdues him, but is so embittered and enraged that he decides to violate the law. After he indicates Westenholtz has a hell awaiting for him on the other side, he goes against the order that Westenholtz would be entitled to a clean, noble death by beheading and instead hangs him.

After informing him, of course, the difference between a piece of paper and the sword.

Mitigating issues?

A sadistic, power hungry creep out for religious persecution, who massacres a full town of innocents and intends on a wide coup, tries to wipe out another town? Westenholtz has zero good qualities to him. Whatsoever. He's a nasty, upjumped, cruel coward i the end.

The Empire is no picnic, being a font of brutality and repression, but the Emperor thus far is The Ghost and we only really glimpse into the frontiers as of the moment, with noboy to compare beyond Claver who is much nastier than he appears. Claver escapes at the end and will clearly return.

Conclusion?

Going with a yes for the Margrave.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#306414: Mar 21st 2022 at 8:17:38 AM

[tup]Westenholtz

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#306415: Mar 21st 2022 at 8:20:45 AM

Yes to Westenholtz.

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#306416: Mar 21st 2022 at 8:25:25 AM

[tup] Westenholtz, and switch to [tdown] to Carl.

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#306417: Mar 21st 2022 at 8:27:13 AM

[tup] Westenholtz

It's Spooky Month!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#306418: Mar 21st 2022 at 8:27:53 AM

Yes to him. Is he only in the first book?

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#306419: Mar 21st 2022 at 8:29:05 AM

[tup] to Margrave Westenholtz.

Switch to a [tdown] to Carl.

[up] He's hanged at the end, so he presumably won't be coming back for the future instalments.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#306420: Mar 21st 2022 at 8:29:50 AM

Well, yeah [lol] I meant does he debut in the first book and then get hanged later, or is it all the first book?

EDIT: Ah, the first book just came out.

Edited by ACW on Mar 21st 2022 at 11:31:20 AM

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#306422: Mar 21st 2022 at 8:38:23 AM

[tup] to Westenholtz and Goddrick

[tdown] to Carl

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#306424: Mar 21st 2022 at 9:12:40 AM

Yes to Godrik and Westenholtz. No to Carl.

Sieg you can search for that EP, I'm sure you'll find it.

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#306425: Mar 21st 2022 at 9:20:38 AM

[tup]Westenholtz.

Why so serious?

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