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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#305701: Mar 16th 2022 at 12:43:37 AM

Yeah, I think something is being a bit misconstrued here unless I'm forgetting something: Sports Maxx kills the dude via curbstomp, kills Ermes' sister, aaaaand that's about it for onscreen stuff except trying to kill the heroes and maybe one or two other killings by his ghost self. His rapsheet as a crime boss is not delved into beyond being noted to have "50 other offenses" tied to him besides tax evasion. Without anywhere close to an explicit bodycount or established pattern of murder, we're looking at a guy way below the baseline who doesn't come close to being as bad as even Kenzō.

Edited by Ravok on Mar 16th 2022 at 12:55:10 PM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#305702: Mar 16th 2022 at 3:57:42 AM

[tdown] Maxx

  • The Brides of Sodom: Lord Dionysus rules a clan of post-apocalyptic vampires, periodically ordering crops of humans captured and drained, or kept in a torture dungeon to be fed off of. After his top hunter Eros falls in love with a human, Dionysus orders him placed in the dungeon to be his Sex Slave. Becoming interested in Samuel himself, Dionysus offers to make him one of his undead slaves, raping him when he refuses. When Eros and Samuel try and fail to escape his grasp, Dionysus pretends to welcome them back while secretly having a duo of witches kill the former while framing his sister Persephone. When Samuel and Persephone retrieve a spellbook Dionysus stole from the witches, he retaliates by having them Forced to Watch as he tears the former's brother's throat out.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#305703: Mar 16th 2022 at 4:03:07 AM

[tdown]Maxx

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#305704: Mar 16th 2022 at 5:22:20 AM

[tdown] to Maxx

Raikou, I'd recommend spending some time in the thread reading and voting on other people's proposals. That's the easiest way to learn how all the nitty-gritty works, especially with regards to heinous standard, which can be one of the hardest things to grasp.

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#305706: Mar 16th 2022 at 6:18:14 AM

No to Maxx.

YobabyColin Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#305709: Mar 16th 2022 at 7:56:57 AM

Nay to Maxx and gonna call the new Kung Fu Panda series for Netflix

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#305710: Mar 16th 2022 at 8:14:01 AM

Not seeing it for Maxx. Now, having talked this one over with Lighty who did his original, I've finished Karl's part and he is a brief villain, solid keeper though he may be. I think we can neatly "fold up" what he does a bit.

From:

  • Karl Tanner is a Night's Watch member who takes the taboo of oathbreaking to extreme measures by instigating a mutiny in Craster's Keep which claims the lives of Lord Commander Jeor Mormont and all of his loyalists. After taking over at Craster's Keep, Karl rules with an iron fist, drinks wine from the skull of the very commander he betrayed, relishes his past as a Psycho for Hire, and pressures his men to rape and brutalize Craster's wives/daughters, who are too terrified of Karl's violent outbursts to oppose him. When one of Craster's wives steps in with the last-born baby boy, Karl's first reaction is to attempt to kill it for not wanting any more mouths to feed. He's only stopped when the wives point out that they leave them as a sacrifice for the White Walkers, so he has that done instead. Once his men captures Bran and his group, Karl abuses Bran and menaces Meera in order to get him to speak, later attempting to gang-rape Meera with his men while forcing her brother to watch. When encountered by Jon Snow, Karl shows nothing but pride for his treachery and relishes the time he and his men had as free men, despite mocking Craster for the same lifestyle a while back.

To:

  • Karl Tanner is a former assassin and sworn brother of the Night's Watch. Taking over Craster's Keep in a mutiny, Karl has his Lord Commander killed to drink wine from his skull while allowing his men to rape and abuse Craster's daughter-wives as they see fit. Having the only male child left to the cold, when Bran Stark and his group arrive Karl plans to torment and kill them all, even trying to force himself on the teenage Meera while forcing her brother to watch.

Otherwise I was thinking of maybe updating Ramsay when I get through his bits if I find something's missing, inaccurate, not emphasized enough, etc. but off the bat how do the others listed currently look to everyone so I can save time?

While we're streamlining I may as well also note Craster could lose his last sentence.

Edited by 43110 on Mar 16th 2022 at 11:31:56 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#305711: Mar 16th 2022 at 8:29:08 AM

Seems good. Do you want to fit him forcing her brother to watch the attempted rape. As that's the only thing from the old one I think is worth being added to the new entry.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#305713: Mar 16th 2022 at 8:32:13 AM

I think the others are fine; slightly on the long side, but the Big 3 and Littlefinger do a LOT.

And I love that both Gregors have the same amount of words in their writeups (hey, I do a lot of work—willingly mind you—that I'm entitled to amusement [lol])

For Karl: The Dreaded for his name; The Oath-Breaker around "Taking over Craster's Keep in a mutiny"; Psycho for Hire around "assassin"?

EDIT: And Forced to Watch for that addition makes 5.

Is Ax-Crazy, The Dreaded, or Adaptational Villainy best for his name?

Edited by ACW on Mar 16th 2022 at 11:32:52 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#305714: Mar 16th 2022 at 8:33:50 AM

Ax-Crazy or Hair-Trigger Temper imo. The others are fine for length... Joff, Littlefinger and Ramsay are definitely of the "exceptionally" bad variety.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#305715: Mar 16th 2022 at 8:36:28 AM

Actually, could Psycho for Hire encompass Ax-Crazy?

His character page also has It's All About Me. I'm not sure which works best for his name, but the other 4 I'm holding firm on.

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#305716: Mar 16th 2022 at 8:39:13 AM

Sure to the rewrite, no to Maxx, I did some reading on him and it's never specified what the other 50 crimes he did actually are, meaning they could be anything.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#305717: Mar 16th 2022 at 9:03:03 AM

Yeah uh I think barring some obscure light novels, games or manga spin offs were probably done with Jojo.

At least for the main series.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#305718: Mar 16th 2022 at 9:03:41 AM

I approve of the Karl rewrite and yeah, the big ones are justified in how they are. I don't recall Aerys or Craster having particularly long entries/writeups obviously.

DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#305719: Mar 16th 2022 at 9:05:38 AM

[tup] to the Ragyo Kiryuin quote and the Karl Tanner rewrite (also don't mind Craster's entry losing the last sentence).

[tdown] to the Thrax video and Sports Maxx.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#305720: Mar 16th 2022 at 9:06:56 AM

Funny you mention that... Aerys was nearly 300 when he had an entry for his book version.

xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
#305721: Mar 16th 2022 at 9:09:25 AM

[tup] show!Aerys and fanfic!Raguyo

For Diethard and Alicia, I'm going to agree that the latter still keeps while the former narrowly is a slight [tdown] for me, through at this point I am overruled

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#305722: Mar 16th 2022 at 9:10:01 AM

Though that one was probably helped by being supplemented by The World of Ice & Fire

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Ferot_Dreadnaught Since: Mar, 2015
#305723: Mar 16th 2022 at 9:31:01 AM

The YMMV page for ComicBook.Terminator Salvation The Final Battle had an unapproved CM entry for Thomas Parnell which I removed. Monster.Terminator has an approved entry for him under the comics section "Film.Terminator Salvation: The Final Battle, written by J. Michael Straczynski:". Am I right in assuming the different namespace is just due to the comic page being recently created and the CM profile should be copied there? (If so the namespace should be fixed under the Monster page.)

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#305724: Mar 16th 2022 at 9:42:23 AM

VVV, I think that was yours. Same comic?

TellAll111 Since: Jun, 2010
#305725: Mar 16th 2022 at 9:49:48 AM

[tup] for the Cipher video, Greyjoy, Crystal Ball, Angela, Ragyo, Lord Dionysus, Simyon and Y'garon, and Mother.

[tdown] for Maxx.

Keep Diethard and Alicia.


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