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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#305601: Mar 15th 2022 at 5:42:45 AM

Yes to Dionysus.

YobabyColin Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
#305602: Mar 15th 2022 at 5:43:17 AM

[tup] to Dalton, Crystal Ball, Angela, Ragyo and Lord Dionysus.

GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#305603: Mar 15th 2022 at 6:04:32 AM

Aye to Dionysus.

[down] Bruh, right after I effortpost a disciple of the DIO you're thinking of... 🗿

Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Mar 15th 2022 at 2:25:05 PM

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#305604: Mar 15th 2022 at 6:11:12 AM

Hmmm. A guy named Dio involved with vampires you say?

[tup] to him and Ragyo

It's Spooky Month!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#305605: Mar 15th 2022 at 6:32:11 AM

Yes to Dionysus and...I'll give Ragyo a yes.

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!
#305606: Mar 15th 2022 at 6:35:29 AM

[tup] to Angela, Dionysus, and Ragyo.

WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#305607: Mar 15th 2022 at 6:36:19 AM

[tup] Ragyo, Dionysus

With Angela since there's 4 others I'm leaning yes but what are they like?

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#305609: Mar 15th 2022 at 7:10:39 AM

[tup] to Ragyo

@Wet: the first one is a Serial Rapist that gaslights his victims into think they have parasites, the second one is a child-eating demon, the third one is a Serial Killer with no powers that tortures his victims, and the fourth one is a witch that kills women and eats their organs.

Angela’s MO is unique enough to stand out having around a dozen or more so people subjected to And I Must Scream fates while she tortured and mutilates their bodies and even disfigures her own parents

[down] it can get pretty dark but since it airs on public network there’s a limit on how dark they can get.

Edited by G-Editor on Mar 15th 2022 at 11:04:05 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#305610: Mar 15th 2022 at 7:12:46 AM

Alright then I'll throw a [tup] Angela

How dark is this show then?

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#305611: Mar 15th 2022 at 7:24:41 AM

So the dolls are confirmed to be sapient?

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#305612: Mar 15th 2022 at 7:35:23 AM

Um the dolls all used to be people, and they all turn on Angela when Sam reminds them who they were and offers them a little compassion.

Edited by MGD107 on Mar 15th 2022 at 7:37:38 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#305615: Mar 15th 2022 at 9:11:18 AM

Yes to Lord Dionysus

Having rewatched JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: Phantom Blood in both dubbed and subbed version, i find Dio's entry quite lacking:

Dio Brando, debuting in Phantom Blood, is the primary villain of the entire series, rising from humble beginnings to become a global threat. After murdering his abusive father, Dio is taken in by the kind-hearted George Joestar and starts to covet his wealth, so Dio goes about ruining his adopted brother Jonathan's life, attempting to gouge out an eye, stealing the first kiss from his girlfriend Erina, and burning his beloved dog alive. Dio later poisons George in an attempt to claim his inheritance, and after being thwarted, stabs him fatally as a blood sacrifice to activate the Stone Mask and become a vampire. Dio then renounces his humanity and sets up a base in a nearby medieval town, draining its inhabitants of life one-by-one. When a mother agrees to let Dio zombify her on the condition that he doesn't lay a hand on her baby, he watches with amusement as the zombified woman eats her own child. After being defeated by Jonathan and reduced to a disembodied head, Dio stalks and murders Jonathan on his honeymoon cruise, before stealing Jonathan's body. Returning in Stardust Crusaders, Dio tries to prevent Jotaro and his friends from reaching him by having a hitman bring down the passenger plane they're on, and murdering his loyal right-hand woman Enya Geil to ensure that she doesn't divulge his powers. In the climactic confrontation with Jotaro and company, Dio abducts a man, forces him to drive at lethal speeds through crowds of pedestrians in pursuit of his foes, and then kills him by using him as a projectile. Stone Ocean reveals details about the now-deceased Dio's grand plan: he manipulated his fanatically loyal follower Enrico Pucci into seeking to rewrite reality into Dio's warped vision of "heaven", meaning nothing but unchecked power for Dio and more grovelling support from his underlings.

While it does mentioned that he set up a base in a town (with population in over 500 people, all of whom Dio wanted to turn into his army of zombies by draining them of their blood) and drained people of their blood, turning dozens of them into zombies, it doesn't mentioned his open intention to "spread his zombies like a plague" across all of England, with dub adding "and the rest of the world will follow". Considering zombies attack and devour any human they see, this would mean quite enormous amount of death that Dio wanted to bring.

Also, the honeymoon cruise, where he killed Jonathan, had also dozens of innocent crew members and guests, all of whom (the only survivors were Erina and Lisa Lisa, who was infant at the time) were either turned into zombies or devoured and killed.

Considering how scales of Dio's crimes were mentioned in this thread before, i found it weird that his writeup doesn't reflect them and "lowers" the level of his intended and actual crimes, making him seem a bit less heinous than he suppose to be as a "global threat".

I can post clips from the anime where what i mentioned is showcased, if anyone wants to see it.

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Mar 15th 2022 at 7:12:29 PM

WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#305616: Mar 15th 2022 at 9:16:43 AM

Would you only add a brief sentence about it? Dio's writeup is pushing over 300. I do agree about the cruise thing though.

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#305617: Mar 15th 2022 at 9:18:07 AM

Okay here's Angela's write-up

  • "Teatime": Angela has demonic powers that she uses to forcibly transform people into doll, having them endure agony as she tortures and mutilates them. Angela would force her parents to lure people into their home for her to convert on the threat that she'll turn them into dolls if they don't comply, having already plasticized some of their body parts. When baby-sitter Sam escapes from Angela's grasp, she orders her dolls to attack Sam before attempting to transform Sam again.

Angela would go after Kora.

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#305618: Mar 15th 2022 at 9:31:53 AM

[up][up] Either that, or remove some of the other stuff?

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#305619: Mar 15th 2022 at 9:54:53 AM

Yes to Angela, Ragyo and Dionysus

I can do a pretty easy edit of DIO's entry if we want, I can pretty smoothly see a way to fit most of his crimes and possibly even slightly shorten the entry, too, while still leaving it written in the same fashion. Y'all just let me know!

Edited by Ravok on Mar 15th 2022 at 9:55:52 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#305620: Mar 15th 2022 at 9:58:59 AM

Yes to Ragyo and the randomly defeated dude!

Ravok’s managed that one over the years so like he said let’s discuss if something could be added or not and let him fix it up once we’ve decided. The issue with a guy like him is he does so much eventually it comes to a point where we can’t get it all.

WetFlannels Classy, Refined, Unstable from Nearby, on a cosmological scale. Since: Oct, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
#305621: Mar 15th 2022 at 10:07:17 AM

I'm not challenging Dio's placement (having seen parts 1 & 3) but is his friendship with Pucci more of means to an end with the universe reset? Or is Dio's mindset that twisted with his views on people.

Edited by WetFlannels on Mar 15th 2022 at 5:07:28 PM

What's wrong D-16? Rise up!
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#305623: Mar 15th 2022 at 10:15:11 AM

Go for it Ravok. I feel like DIO's probably like Femto in that he does so much that the writeup doesn't need to be TOO short.

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#305624: Mar 15th 2022 at 10:33:26 AM

While i agree that Dio has so many crimes, that they can't all be added, i simply suggested to add those, that make him be seen as a "global threat", since his current writeup sells him short on that and make him seem as barely more heinous than (or on par) with Diavolo and Cioccolata, despite the fact that after watching the anime, Dio outheinous nearly all Jojo villains with his "grand plans", that involve trying to unleash his zombies across the entire country (or countries, considering that he was planning to sail on the ship, where Jonathan and Erina were, to America, while the ship was full of zombies, who would have devoured and turned humans there).

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Mar 15th 2022 at 8:34:16 PM

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#305625: Mar 15th 2022 at 10:57:27 AM

We've been over it time and again with Dio and Pucci, Dio is never shown to genuinely care for Pucci. He charms him as a disciple but there's absolutely no proof that he properly cared for him.

Alright, what do we think of this for Dio, less than 300 and covers pretty much all bases possible:

  • Dio Brando is the primary villain of the original universe, rising from humble beginnings to become a global threat. After murdering his abusive father, Dio is taken in by the kind-hearted George Joestar, and goes about ruining his adopted brother Jonathan's life so as to obtain George's wealth, attempting to gouge out Jonathan's eye, stealing the first kiss from his girlfriend Erina, and burning his beloved dog alive. Dio later poisons then fatally stabs George as a blood sacrifice to activate the Stone Mask and become a vampire, renouncing his humanity wiping out entire towns of all life while intending to spread his vampiric zombies across the world. When a mother agrees to let Dio zombify her on the condition that he doesn't hurt her baby, he watches with amusement as the zombified woman eats her own child. After being reduced to a disembodied head by Jonathan, Dio stalks and murders Jonathan and the dozens of guests aboard his honeymoon cruise before stealing Jonathan's body. Returning decades later, Dio schemes for further power while dispatching hired or brainwashed killers to slaughter Jotaro's group, uncaring that his minions claim hundreds of lives in the process, before murdering the loyal Enya Geil to ensure that she doesn't divulge his powers. In the climactic confrontation with Jotaro, Dio murders a variety of bystanders in gruesome ways and forces a man to drive at lethal speeds through crowds of pedestrians for fun. Stone Ocean reveals details about the now-deceased Dio's grand plan: he manipulated his fanatical follower Enrico Pucci into rewriting reality into Dio's warped vision of "heaven", granting Dio unchecked power.

Edited by Ravok on Mar 15th 2022 at 11:15:41 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!

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