During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
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We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
to Crassus and Aerys.
Is this the last Game of Thrones keeper or is it possible there is someone else we are overlooking?
Edited by WatTambor on Mar 14th 2022 at 8:48:22 PM
The well's pretty dry on the show at this point from the sound of it.
Based on the EP, easy
to Crassus. I read his entry for Spartacus too. Yeah, since it's not an actual sequel, it WOULD be a totally separate entry instead of an extension or one for the same tree.
Maybe my wording wasn't right. We all make mistakes and the right amount of questioning is definitely necessary to make sure nothing was missed and everything is covered and yeah, not practical to think certain people are almost always perfect . Again, ACW I thought handled the question on Aerys better than I think he did Olson though.
Also, would Drake & Riot also count as a Versus since one is an escaped prisoner of the other in the beginning or is that a stretch?
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Mar 14th 2022 at 11:07:05 AM
Let’s wait and see. Everyone is probably right thanks to the heinous standard but seeing it for myself Aerys is a pretty surprising miss and the franchise has had some controversial but legitimate list changes (see his novel version’s removal, olden days missing Tywin’s laundry list of redeeming qualities, etc.) I’ll let y’all know if I find anything to write home about, don’t worry!
I'll slot Aerys at the top? He doesn't appear until a season 6 flashback, but is apparently mentioned earlier, and that flashback is before the series? If not there, he'll go at the end.
- Out, by Rob Williams, Will Conrad, & Marco Lesko:
- Kommandant Ludin is an icy Nazi who first shows off his cruelty by massacring the prisoners he's forced to dig up an ancient vampire, after promising to free them. Intending to use the vampire to slaughter the Allies, Ludin promptly begins feeding everyone he has no use for to the monster to strengthen it, from a priest to a fellow Nazi trying to make him see reason.
- The nameless vampire is an ancient king who was sealed away and, when awakened, feasts upon the blood of anything in proximity. The vampire kills anyone it can, sneaking out of its pit to tear apart guards or prisoners alike. When making a pact with the prisoner Nocona, who understands its mother tongue, the vampire gleefully butchers all of Ludin's men and Ludin himself before turning Nocona out of sheer spite.
- Gandhi: Brigadier General Reginald Edward Harry Dyer oversaw the Jallianwala Bagh Massacre
, intending "to inflict a lesson that would have an impact throughout all India". Dyer ordered his troops to fire "where the crowd was the thickest", and even had innocent civilians gunned down for trying to escape. His actions and callousness disgust his British peers, and catalyzes Mahatma Gandhi's pursuit for complete independence from British rule.
- The Chronicles of Narnia:
- Jadis, the White Witch, was born in Charn. Fighting with her sister over her universe, she employed the Deplorable Word, killing all life in it aside from herself. Putting herself into a slumber out of boredom, she is found by Digory Kirke and Polly Plummer, the former who she seduces and both of whom she threatens to physically harm, forcing them to take her to London. Finding herself powerless, she decides to commit petty crimes like theft until she is dragged into the nascent Narnia. There, she eats a silver apple, restoring her powers, and seduces Digory again, first with promises of power and then with the ability to save his dying mother. When this fails, she mocks him and leaves to the north, where she spends centuries amassing magical power and creating a tradition of evil witches that would plague Narnia much later down the line. She then marches south and wipes out human beings from Narnia and forbids any from coming there. Installing an Endless Winter, Jadis formed a totalitarian government where dissenters would either be turned into stone or killed outright. On coming across Edmund Pevensie, Jadis seduces him with Turkish Delight as means to rat out his siblings; when he does, she takes him prisoner and even attempts to kill him once she learns Aslan has returned. When Edmund is saved, Jadis appeals to an ancient law stating that traitors are her property, prompting Aslan to sacrifice his own life. Jadis responds by setting up an extremely painful and humiliating execution, immediately reneging on her deal.
- The Silver Chair: The Lady of the Green Kirtle, or the Green Lady, is a powerful witch with a specialty in Mind Manipulation, a desire to rule over Narnia, and not even an ounce of morality. After arriving in the country, she assassinates the beloved queen. When Prince Rilian comes to avenge his mother, the Green Lady captures him and mind rapes him for six years until he is nothing more than her brain-dead servant and forced husband. In addition, she performs the same dark magic on gnomes from the Deep Realm, forcing thousands of otherwise good people into being her slaves who are allowed to do nothing but build her underground castle for years. When the heroes arrive in Narnia to try to rescue the Prince, she misdirects them into a pack of man-eating giants, fully intending for the three heroes, two of whom are children, to be brutally murdered and eaten. After the heroes manage to escape and confront her in her lair, she attempts to brainwash them too, only to go ballistic when the hypnosis fails, at which point she tries to kill them and thousands of gnomes and other innocent creatures living underground.
- The Last Battle: Shift convinces his "friend" Puzzle to wear a lion skin so he can pass Puzzle off as Aslan. When Calormen invades, Shift is too eager to switch sides and sell out Narnians to mass slavery. Helping to facilitate Calormen, Shift is responsible for the deaths of countless Narnians, including the massacre of the dryads, while plotting to see all of Narnia rot under Calormen as long as he profits.
- Darth Vader: Dark Lord of the Sith & Lando: Darth Momin began his evil at a young age when he butchered his family's pet cat to make a sculpture from its remains. After killing his master, Momin devoted his time to studying the Dark Side and eventually dedicated his later morbid creations to the Dark Side itself. As a testament to his philosophy that the only true forms of art are the ones that elicit pain and fear from those who see it, Momin and his acolytes constructed a superweapon designed specifically to preserve the perpetual terror of an entire city before its citizens were vaporized into ash. His spirit living on inside his mask, Momin helps Darth Vader construct his fortress to open a doorway in the Force before betraying him and using the doorway to reunite with his original body.
- Pie Game: The First Floor Man is a disabled man driven by sadistic pleasure. After killing multiple animals in the outside world, the Man he joined the Money game and killed all seven competitors in under a month, exchanging all of his winning prizes to join the Pie game. Getting the sympathy of others, the Man has the Sixth Floor Man as his puppet for his upper-class tyranny, only to torture him once he is exposed as the mastermind. To gain more money by exchanging fun to the game masters, the Man manipulates the Fourth Floor Man's arson plan to look like a "saint" to the Third Floor Man after replacing him to be at the upper floor and saving him when he nearly dies from suffocation, mocking the Fourth Floor Man and crippling him. Later, the Man conducts a human experiment on the protagonist and the Second Floor Woman, driving the latter to insanity. After betraying the Seventh Floor Woman, the Man makes a false alliance with the protagonist, and after buying information on the Seventh Floor Woman, attempts to he attempts to "buy" her daughter to torture her in front of her mother. Eventually, the Man plans to kill the protagonist when the latter believes that the former has gone too far.
Tbh I'm open to ideas on order. He is minor and I do understand some feeling it would be awkward to have him above the memetically evil Joff and longest-standing Big Bad Littlefinger.
Especially given the new rules for posthumous or "offscreen" types I feel we get enough lines about his sadism, paranoia and hatred to characterize the man beyond "An evil dead guy."
Anyone have any thoughts on order? I'm open but I think it could use some deliberation.
Edited by 43110 on Mar 14th 2022 at 2:18:30 PM
How soon is "Burn them all" mentioned? That would make placing him between a couple of the early keepers in the group a little more appropriate. Like if he was between Littlefinger and The Mountain for instance—which is only hypothetical as I'm not sure if he would go there or not.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Mar 14th 2022 at 11:20:39 AM

Future that is an awful attitude to have. Nobody should ever be above being second-guessed. There are tons of comparisons to awful stuff I could draw but I won't do.
Oh, you were joking, still though don't have that.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Mar 14th 2022 at 10:44:08 AM