During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Yes there.
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)Yes to Dice and Ringo.
I've de-potholed and tweaked the Sleepy Hollow stuff:
- Sleepy Hollow:
- Seasons 1 & 2: Moloch aims to unleash the apocalypse to destroy and subjugate all who live. As guardian of Purgatory, it is Moloch who devises all the tortures its prisoners suffer. Trapped in Purgatory, Moloch steadily corrupts humans to act as his servants, including hero Ichabod Crane's best friend Abraham Van Brunt, who becomes the Horseman of Death in return for Moloch promising him Ichabod's beloved Katrina, whom Moloch holds prisoner in Purgatory. Moloch spends centuries manipulating events, turning numerous humans into monsters and orchestrating murder after murder, punishing failure with brutal execution or torture. Moloch attempts to steal Ichabod and Katrina's infant son Jeremy, then waits nearly two centuries to liberate Jeremy from being Buried Alive to turn him into his the Horseman of War and set him against his parents. While Jeremy comes to see Moloch as a father, Moloch viciously abuses and manipulates him, informing Jeremy that he is only a servant who should follow his will before sending him on a potential suicide mission.
- "Go Where I Send Thee": The Pied Piper is an extremely sinister demon who is known for mass slaughter of soldiers and for what it does with children. Each generation, the Piper preys on a daughter of a specific family; the child, when she turns 10, is kidnapped and taken to the Piper's lair to await her fate, which is usually her bones being made into the Piper's instruments—but only after being starved to death. Out of nothing but spite, when the girl is rescued, the Piper proceeds to infect all the girl's siblings with a fatal illness to force the parents to either return the chosen girl to the Piper or watch their other children die.
- Season 3: Etu Ilu, the Hidden One was a cruel, arrogant, hot-tempered deity, driven by lust for power and a hatred of mankind. Ten thousand years ago, due to his evil nature his fellow gods banished him to the Catacombs, where he seduced Pandora and tried to manipulate into slaughtering his fellow deities using a box which could steal a god's power, only for the humans to use it to instead imprison him in the Catacombs. Awakened in the present by Pandora with his power source lost, the Hidden One has his minions summon monsters from all over world to Sleepy Hollow so he could feed off them, causing many deaths. Murdering The Kindred and The Kindress after they falled in love them, the Hidden One abuses and tortures Pandora and cursed Jenny Mills's boyfriend Joe Corbin to become a Wendigo, forcing Jenny to kill Joe. Finally regaining his former powers, the Hidden One imprisoned Pandora then bragged how he would wipe mankind out gradually, so he could bask in their fear and suffering.
- Season 4:
- Malcolm Dreyfuss was an internet tech billionaire obsessed with gaining immortality. After being forced into a Deal with the Devil, to avoid keeping his end of the deal Malcolm sought the Philosopher's Stone, causing numerous deaths, including Diana Thomas's partner Eric, and attempting to sacrifice over 100,000 people. Becoming immortal, Malcolm decided to conquer America and raised The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. For Pestilence, Malcolm spread a supernatural plague through Washington, D.C., causing multiple deaths through spontaneous combustion or having their soul devoured; for Famine, Malcolm released a Chinese hunger demon which killed several people through either starvation or cannibalism; for War, Malcolm turned Diana, effectively killing her. Malcolm then attacked Camp David and used the Four Horsemen to slaughter the entire US Army, forcing the government to crown him immortal dictator of America. Malcolm proceeded to ruthlessly suppress all freedoms and execute all dissidents, using the Four Horseman as his personal hit squad. Unable to kill the Witnesses, Malcolm had Crane imprisoned and adopted Diana's daughter Molly, rechristening her Laura; he spent years lying to and manipulating Laura, until upon one assault to wipe out the last of the resistance she learned the truth.
- Jobe, a "Prince of Pain from the sixth circle of Hell", served as Malcolm's assistant, bodyguard, and assassin. Implementing the majority of Malcolm's plans, Jobe never missed an opportunity to commit murder, often choosing particularly painful methods for his victims. It was Jobe who originally shanghaied Malcolm into a deal for his soul, setting him off on the path to becoming a monster. Without Malcolm's knowledge, Jobe manipulated the terms of the deal to also send his best friend, the completely innocent Ansel, to hell. Jobe personally joined his fellow demons in torturing Ansel for 20 years, even carving his name into Ansel's chest. Assisting Malcolm every step of the way, Jobe murders Mr. Wong in such a brutal manner it's mistaken for an animal attack; tortures Jake Wells for information, partially through physical pain, partially by giving him a nightmarish vision of him murdering Alex; and raised an army of Hessians as Draugurs to restore the Headless Horseman. Having no more use for them, he sent them to burn Sleepy Hollow to the ground. Disliking the prospect of serving Malcolm for eternity, Jobe helped bring about his downfall, and happily dragged the screaming Malcolm into Hell.
There is a clear resource gap between them as well as different types of villainy. Yes we do to an extent but some level of leniency is afforded especially if the crimes aren't even mentioned (if we did completely Goldtooth would have to go right away). And honestly, it sounds like this guy would keep in terms of heinousness even in the Paper Mario franchise properly

Mr Dice
What's wrong D-16? Rise up!